hey i'm new ;) can someone lend me a hand? :)

hey guys


i just received an op1 in the mail yesterday. having a good time so far. a couple of niggles, wonder if it is something wrong with my unit. could you let me know if these are bugs in the OS?

1. the pattern sequencer does not sync with the tape. i turn the orange encoder to turn on “hold” (im not sure why a feature that should be called “play” is called “hold”) and it does not sync with the tape. what i want to do is hit play on the tape loop, then have the patter sequencer run in sync with the tape so i can program a pattern “live”. but i cannot for the life of me get it to sync properly – maybe its the fact that you have to turn a knob to turn it on instead of button?? or maybe it’s problem #2 -->

2. the pattern sequencer when playing (called “hold” not “play” accidentally) the playhead is actually 1/4 note ahead of what is played. ie, when the playhead is on note 2/4 it plays beat 1/4. this makes it very hard to visually time the turning on of “hold” (play sequence) mode to beat match to the playback of the tape. is this a bug in the software?? seems like an elementary mistake.

3. in the old days of recording (ie beatles) the engineers would bounce multiple tracks together. ie, record bass and drums on separate tracks and then bounce them down to a single track. they would often do two different instruments per track (piano, trumpet etc) so they could have 8 tracks going. is there a way to lift two tracks together and drop them to a single track?? if there is i couldnt work it out. i tried “shift --> drop” (".") but it doesnt seem to do anything – what does that “.” dot mean?

4. is there a shortcut to a diagnostics page? shows firmware version etc?

hope you’re all well. looking forward to getting involved.

cheers, peter.

Welcome
Hold : when you want to play a sequencer you have to push a key on the keyboard. If you don t want to keep you finger on the key, you can’t use the “hold” function to hold the key for you

  1. Firmware version is shown on startup screen.
    Diagnostic page can be reach by pressing “com” and turning on the device

Sorry I don’t have time for the rest. Have you check the full manual (on TE website) and the video on the TE YouTube channel ?

hey thanks for the reply.


well i disagree that “hold” is the right term to use there as you are not actually holding any keys down. i can see how “hold” would be the right term to use when you hold down a note on the keyboard and select “hold” in something like an ARP. i’m just asking pattern to play the pattern, not to hold a particular note or notes.

thx for the tip about the firmware. mine says 220. is this the latest? i thought 218 was the latest.

i read the manual and watched about 100 youtube vids already :wink: i couldn’t find the answers to my questions. if anyone else knows the answers to my questions that would be awesome :wink:

i recorded a sequence in “pattern” with my iphone and loaded it up into FCPX. you can see that the soundwave (BD) and the sequence do not line up, with the note playing 1/4note behind the playhead. i have attached 3 photos of the playhead moving between two beats. does anyone else have this problem?

many thanks :wink: peter




Hi,


if you want the sequencers to sync with tape exactly, there’s at least one way of doing it:

* Switch on the sequencer, but don’t enable hold yet
* go to tape, and hold down the rec button
* press a key to start the sequencer and the tape
* now you can release the rec button
* while continuing to press a key to keep the sequencer running, press the sequencer button, and rotate the orange encoder to enable “hold”
* now you can release the key, and the sequencer keeps running synced to to tape!

If for some reason pressing rec doesn’t work for you you can always press a note key and the play key simultaneously, but it might not be completely in sync then, unlike with the previous method. also, another variant to the first method: immediately after pressing a note key to start the sequencer, press play to turn the rec mode off.

Hope this helps. IMHO the interaction between sequencers & tape are the best thing about OP-1, so keep on experimenting, and asking questions here if you get puzzled!

I ll try something tonight with pattern '. I don’t use it (I should probably). I am not sure it works like other sequencers on the op1. That’s probably the reason I use arpeggio et finger.
We ll find something :wink:

thx for the replies guys


yeah i really like the sequencers in the op1. a big part of my purchase was to play with them specifically. disappointed with the basic pattern sequencer though :frowning: i guess it’s been designed like the 707 sequencer, but people want to use it like the drum rack in ableton – able to program beats live. otherwise you have to get a perfect performance direct to tape. really disappointed it doesn’t beat sync to tape — seems like a really basic requirement of a step sequencer. i appreciate the workaround, but hopefully it’s something TE fix. hopefully they can fix the dodgy timing of the playhead in the pattern sequencer while they are at it. :wink:

i’ll get onto the other sequencers too :wink:

cheers, peter



Welcome to the community of operators.

HOLD: in my opinion is an appropriate way to describe the behaviour in the Pattern sequencer. Let me demonstrate. Create a sequence. Then exit the Pattern screen by hitting the Synth button. Press multiple keys. The sequence will be played relative to each key you hit and will stop when you release. Now hit the Sequencer button, entering the Pattern sequencer and turn the Hold knob. Again hit the Synth button and the sequencer is playing. Hit various buttons and you'll heat the sequence being played relative to the keys you press, with the exception is that it is 'held' after you release the keys.

BOUNCE: just record your two tracks to Album. Then record the Album track back to a single Tape track using 'Ear' as the recording source.

CB

I think you just need some time to adapt to OP-1’s workflow. For example, I wouldn’t try to beat-mix the pattern sequencer and the tape from the sequencer screen using visual cues. Instead, use your ears, and press a note key first, then turn on “hold”. Or use my trick with the rec button described above. It takes a bit time to get used to everything. Btw, pattern sequencer is probably my least used sequencer. If you want to jam live, I recommend the Finger, or Endless with the pattern variations (white knob).

220 is a newer version I believe. The official site and mine has 218.


BOUNCE: just record your two tracks to Album. Then record the Album track back to a single Tape track using 'Ear' as the recording source.


You can just enable the ‘Ear’, select a free track and press Record + Play to record all output to that track.
i.e. You have your bass and drums on track 1 and 2. You select track 3, go to the start of tracks 1&2, enable ear and press Record + Play.

Yes, the pattern sequencer is super limited. Bit of a shame.

The good thing is that it’s makes you (well, me at least) really work harder at capturing a finger-drum take to tape, or use some creative bouncing/pattern edits to get what you want.

In terms of the “beatles” method of bouncing two tracks to one, you can do this very simply:
Say you have tracks 1 with drums, 2 with bass.
- Select track 3(which is blank in this case)
- Hit shift+microphone button (top right)
- select the ear (which is resampling from the master output)
- Hit play while still in the microphone menu, and adjust the gain to suit using RED
- Go back to tape and hit rec+play. This will record the active tracks (1 and 2) onto track 3.
- You can then delete tracks 1 and 2 if you desire (as they did in the four track days) and move on
- OR, you could hit shift+lift which will take everything in the loop brace, and copy it. I then paste this later on in the tape and leave my “original” takes alone as backups.


As per the sequencer “hold” function, I agree it is a bit annoying that you can’t get it to sync from the seq page. Instead (as mentioned above), don’t use the hold function, but instead go to tape mode, hold REC, then press the key of choice for your sequence. The advantage of the OP being so small is that you can use the thumb of your right hand to hold down middle C and still tweak the knobs if you want to capture some changes to tape.

Have fun with it - it definitely took me a while to start working within the bounds of the OP, rather than trying to make it do what some of my other devices/DAWs do (like Maschine for example). Finding a workflow took me a bit of time, but now I can create things on OP that would be super difficult to do easily on my other machines.

I’m still not following on “dodgy timing” of tape with relation to the sequencer. Are you starting the tape via MIDI and then trying to punch in sequencer in time, but it is not lining up how you expect? The Tape does not care about timing, really. The timing comes down to the tempo setting. So the only way to get the Tape to line up to the tempo is to have the Tape beat-locked to the tempo, and then have your Tape loop set to the bar markers on the screen. The only definite way to get the sequencer to line up to the Tape (without human error of timing) is to use the method described previously of starting the Tape by using record plus a key to start the sequencer. This is true for every sequencer on the OP-1.


To further your relation to how the Beatles recorded – think if the Beatles had used a drum machine to record to tape. They would have been limited to the same thing you are seeing. The tape would not be “beat synced” to the sequencer. In this way, you are creating music just like the Beatles would have, but with one device instead of many.

Also, if u want/must trigger your pattern sequencer from the sequencer page: while in the pattern sequencer screen push and hold the help button and press any musical key of your choosing. now the keys will trigger your sequence. in order to turn this mode off, go back to tape and return to your sequencer page.

Two top tips right there. I particularly like the help button while on sequencer page to allow keyboard triggering to start (@dotcommunion). This works for sketch too.
But you have to observe @GCF 's point on set Beatmatch On in tempo page with green ,if you haven’t already.

You can double track easy. Just overdub on the same track, no need to bounce. Bounce will record master fx /drive & EQ to tape though which is fun.

p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica} p.p2 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px}

well thank you guys for all your replies ;) what a super community — and friendly too ;) many thanks.


vehka — thanks for your workaround on how to start the sequencer in time. it really should be a simple process to have the sequencer run in time with the internal clock though shouldn’t it? seems like an elementary mistake to have the sequencer run out of time — if it was cubase or logic or protools or live or pretty much anything else they wouldn’t let a product go out where the sequencers didn’t run in time.


cloudburst — ah i see your point on holding the notes. makes sense for it to be “hold” when you are going out of sequencer, holding a note then coming back into sequencer. if you’re not holding a note it should be “play” imo because i’m not holding a note. i think the confusion is also that this sequencer is based on the 707. there’s no “hold” button on the 707 — there is a play button (start). so my expectation is to look for the play button. and I’m thinking “I’m not holding any notes, why does it say hold?”.


crabraz — thanks for your suggestion. i tried it and my experience was that the level of the bounced track is lower than that of the original tracks that were to be bounced. is this your experience too? i have the record level at 100%. i would have liked a way to simply lift all the tracks and bounce them down to a single track i.e., perhaps shit -> lift (lift all tracks) then shift -> drop (drop all tracks to a single track) — this would make it an efficient process for alleviating the problem of only having 4 tracks.


cfg — in regard to the timing — the tempo clock fits perfectly with the tape. my problem is with the starting of the sequencer in time with the tempo. i am used to ableton live, so if the clock is running and i start a loop, ableton shifts the start of that loop to be exactly in time with the clock. i.e., if i press the “start loop” button fractionally late, ableton knows “he was trying to start the loop on the beat” and then forces the loop in time with clock. similarly with sequencers they adjust to my intention and disregard a fractional delay in start time on account of human error. i guess you could say it’s a “snapping” of the sequence to the clock. the pattern sequencer in the OP1 does not snap start times to the tempo. this seems like an elementary mistake to me — would anyone intentionally want a 707 style sequencer to be fractionally out of time? and not just fractionally either, “turning a knob” to start a sequence when we are used to “pressing a button” to match timing seems unintuitive and creates a new unnecessary learning curve. fortunately dotcommunication came up with a better solution.


dot communication — thanks for your tip. yes it is easier to start the sequencer in time by holding “help” and then triggering the sequencer with a button — instead of having to turn a knob.



many thanks for all your help ;) really appreciate it. thank you.


i’m sure i’ll have more questions soon enough ;)


cheers, peter

hey i just thought of another solution to the problem im having with the “hold” philosophy of language problem and the “starting the pattern sequencer on time” problem.


why does turning the knob to “hold” automatically start the pattern sequencer in C? why cant you just change it to “hold” mode – and then when you press a key on the keyboard the pattern starts. when you take it off “hold” the pattern stops. seems like a nice solution to several problems.

cheers, peter.

As far as bouncing tracks.

The method i use is the lift all on the tracks i want to bounce, then you can drop it back onto the tape and then into the drum sampler. With the white knob scroll from the first key to make the take play the whole sample and have in input on the tape all the way up with no effects or lfo on the drum sampler. Then simply hold record and play the first key onto an empty track.That will be the bounced track, with the old separate tracks on the left of the new bounced track.

I’ve also tried the record with ear to album and the ear onto tape. I think the drum sampler method is the cleanest sounding result as far as a seamless bounce, the other two methods seem to vary in result depending on how everything is set up. distortion, loudness, digital hums and the such.

i just found a bug with the “help + key method” to trigger the sequencer.


when you use this method it stays in the “keys = transpose the drum kit mode” instead of reverting to the “keys = drum sample triggering mode”.

if you go out of sequencer (tape) and then back in it changes it back to “drum sample triggering mode”.

is there somewhere to report bugs to TE? are they responsive?

cheers, peter

Just give it some time. And enjoy playing. After a while you understand the workflow.

I’m saying this with complete sincerity – but it seems like you are trying to get the OP-1 to adjust to your workflow instead of adjusting your workflow to the OP-1. Many people have tried to will the OP-1 into their own expectations and many have failed. Ultimately, the decisions made in the process of creating a workflow errs on the side of the operator (you) doing things in a “I’m sitting in a studio and have many boxes in one” rather than a “this is just a DAW sitting on a specialized computer.” As I mentioned, the Tape is supposed to be like a physical tape – it does not care about bar markers or tempo or anything like that – it only cares about whether or not to loop and how fast the “tape” is moving. The 707 would have the same issue if you had it synced via CV or MIDI and you didn’t sync the start with Live or something else (it would not wait for a downbeat to start). I think most people I have seen sequence the drums, and then sync start with the “hold the record and hit key” method. That is guaranteed to sync the Tape and sequencer. I am not trying to minimize your frustration with the OP-1 not working how you expect – I get that it’s frustrating. But working through/around it is the only way to have sanity unless you put it aside and wait for the next OS update, which could be years :slight_smile:


Like others have recommended, just learn how the OP-1 works (and doesn’t work), and in the long run you will be happy with it.