@fallen_lassen - will do I spent a pretty penny on it so need to give it a fair shot, like I said before there are things about the OP-Z I think are great and I’m sure TE will do something synth related in the future
@GCF - no worries bro, I’d been out all day and not eaten a sausage so I think I was a bit hangry. Just had some mac n cheese and the world feels great again. sorry for goin off at you too.
Peace out to my Z squad brothers
If we go by the definition of a synthesizer the op-z definitely is a synth. I checked a couple dictionaries and they all agree but with slightly different wording. Here is the Wikipedia definition of a synthesizer:
A synthesizer or synthesiser (often abbreviated to synth ) is an electronic musical instrument that generates audio signals that may be converted to sound.
The op-z can’t be a sampler if it can’t actually sample things. Take other sample based groove boxes as an example. The ekeltron model: samples is not called a sampler, they call it a sample player. Until it has that feature I won’t call it a sampler. the classic Roland 909 is considered a sample based synth.
The op-1 synth engines also use .aif file format. Check op1.fun if you want to check yourself. Here is an example of a patch for the FM engine. https://op1.fun/users/gambler/patches/8-fm I don’t see how the op-1 engines are any more or less dedicated than what the op-z has.
Also being a sampler does not mean something is not a synthesizer. Sample based synthesis is a real form of synthesis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample-based_synthesis
Do you have a different definition of what a synthesizer is or any reason why being a sampler precludes something from being a synthesizer? I would say all samplers are synthesizers, but not all synthesizers are samplers. Take the pocket operators for example. They all use the same chip. It is designed to be used for power management, but has been hacked into several unique synth engines, including two types of samplers.
Hey @kingof9x
Thanks for joining in the ‘debate’ I never meant for anybody to have to do homework when I set up this thread 
. I did the same thing which is why I had to concede ^ on a semantic level. I had no idea there were so many different types of synthesis before researching. I also found something about how electric car manufacturers are now synthesising engine noise to make their cars less dangerous. Technically cars will become synthesizers as we will be able to make alterations to pitch using the accelerator. We won’t even be bound by engine noise, technically the cars could make any noise we want them to. Can you imagine driving down the street blazing out the first chord from the terminator theme? I don’t really believe cars could be classed as synths, I think that maybe the word synthesizer is too vague nowadays given the progress made since their conception. The OP-Z as you so rightly point out isn’t a sampler - yet, but I think from the way we had to add content it was evident it was always going to be reliant on some form of input whether directly sampled or not. I can see why TE chose sample synthesis as it is less CPU intensive than other forms of synthesis but I had no idea the OP1 relied on it too, the engines are so much more realised IMO than the OP-Z, but now I wonder why I can’t use OP1 synth engines on the OP-Z? Any way thanks for your insights.
Sorry realised I hadn’t answered your questions. I don’t have a different definition of what a synthesizer is but I think a synthesizer should be a what synthesizers started out as. Sounds based on sin/square/saw etc. Modern synths using other forms of synthesis should be appended with what form of synthesis they use. The microgranny refers to itself as a granular synth for example and so I know what I’m getting with that.
Sorry to disagree but I don’t agree that samplers are synthesizers either, some samplers can be synthesizers like Akai rackmounted samplers for eg but I don’t think I ever transposed a sample across a keyboard on an sp404 ( be interesting if I could let me know if you can)
Is a guitar without strings still a guitar?
It can‘t make a sound without strings…but i guess everybody would agree that it is still a guitar.
A guitar without strings is worthless but still some are sold for a fortune.
So do you pay for the strings or do you pay for all the possibilities it gives you to create?
I’d say yes, just non functional. Also you pay for the tangible not the intangible
Exactly - same as a synthesizer without engines, presets, samples or whatever;)
What proof you have of this? Have you seen the OP-Z source code? This affirmation goes against what TE is advertising and as many have already mentioned here is not true.
My reply only applied to your guitar scenario. If you apply it to the OP-Z it doesn’t because synth engines are intangible yet we pay for those. So if you take my answer generally as a black and white rule of life then I was wrong in that way too.
Hey @punji
I don’t have proof. You guys keep telling me that the synth engines use aif files which is an audio file format akin to wav files AFAIK. How many times have you been able to play a sound from a synth you owned on audio recording software that isn’t a software editor for that particular synth(maybe there are some I just don’t know them, I don’t know everything, who does?)? I haven’t tried this but theoretically if the OP-Z engines (not the user samples) use aif files then you should be able to open them in software.
I wasn’t using sample synthesis as derogatory phrase. Ease your wheel a bit you come across as angry to me. Like i’ve said a few times I’m not tech, if you are instruct and help others to understand. Look at @kingof9x for a good example.
You may learn something if you read something about digital synthesis(VA) vs samplebased(rompler)
No. The OP-1 uses aif files with a placeholder sound (a voice saying “OP-1 patch” or something), with the metadata for the synth settings stored as plain text in the header. I think the original plan was for the aif to contain a rendering of the synth sound but that never happened.
Once again, the OP-Z does not use aif files to reference the synth engines in the slot folders (yes, you can load aif files, but they will activate the specific sample playback engine, which is different to the others). The extension is “.engine” and they’re pointers to the internal synth engines. How can you explain what the first two parameters do for each engine if they’re sample based?
I really don’t understand how you’re not getting this 
Can you expand on what you mean by this? Are you saying that an Akai S2000 is a synthesizer where an SP404 is not, since the Akai S2000 uses a keyboard as control of the samples and the SP404 does not? I’m not sure if that’s what you’re saying though, so don’t want to assume.
I have seen some confusion in the past couple years on the internet about what is and is not x,y,z when it comes to music stuff. Most recently, I saw someone call the OP-Z an “analog synth”, which I assume means they consider anything that exists physically to be analog, and anything that is pure software to be digital. It’s hard to know though, because with some technical terms, people use them non-technically as well, and that just confuses things 
(organic, GMO, etc in food terms)
Easy @GCF Good question.
Personally (so IMO, not a definition) i would say for a sampler to be a synth would require the ability to take a sampled sound eg a piano note and transpose that across a keyboard for a full musical range. I think the name synthesizer comes from the way they were originally designed to synthesise acoustic instruments. In my head when the piano sample is transposed across the keyboard, that note is synthesised at different pitches. I can’t imagine what you could do with an akai s2000 without a keyboard tbh it’d be like a guitar without strings . While an sp404 is capable of pitch shifting samples it doesnt have that layer of musicality that a keyboard adds, again IMO. So what about modular gear without keyboards? I dunno maybe definitions get stretched when companies create a device but don’t dare call it something other than a synth just in case they lose sales, only guessing tho.
With regards analogue, wow whoever that was, was really stretching the definition. Does that mean to them a Juno and a Moog are the same thing? I think they confuse hardware and software.
Oh boy. I love how deep in the weeds this topic is. @GCF The lines are very blurry on what “analog” is. even merriam-webster doesn’t really provide any help there. Analog could be referring to the physical or non digital character of the thing. Sometimes it seems like the line between what is analog and isn’t is if it uses a standard operating system like ios, android, mac or windows. Analog | Definition of Analog by Merriam-Webster edit: adding a link to the OED definition becuase i referenced the OED as the ultimate authority of english 
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/analogue
@ OPNed: homework can be fun sometimes. On the topic of cars being synths did you know a road can also synthesize sound that could be called music? Musical road - Wikipedia I have been on one of them. It sound really bad. There is a funny story there. If you have like 4 minutes check this out - Why California's Musical Road Sounds Terrible - YouTube So if you drive down a musical road with an electric car does it count as a synthesizer by the definition I put forth earlier? I say yes, but in the most ridiculous way. Would you consider a sp404 to be electronic? Would you consider the sp404 to be a musical instrument even if it can’t play something chromatically? That would fit the definition above?
Also there is no need to concede! one of the funner things about language is how it can change based on how a word is used or understood. Growing up I was drilled by teachers about how funner is not a word, yet the OED even says it can be used informally - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fun If we go look up sampler on wikipedia Sampler (musical instrument) - Wikipedia The way it describes the instrument does not completely agree with my statement about all samplers being synthesizers. There is obviously allot of room for debate about what is a synthesizer, analog, or a sampler. Where does an Ipad with all of the sound production apps fall in this categorization?
@pselodux thanks for clarifying how the .aif file format is used.
I love how off in the weeds we are. What is a computer?
I guess I must be stupid then. Didn’t you say before that the files where PCM? What are AIF files if they aren’t PCM? I can’t hook up my OP-Z to a computer I’m on hols and didn’t bring it cause the sound selection sucks and I can only get a few of my own sounds on it.
@fallen_lassen u r right I probably could do with reading up but I just can’t be arsed, i’d rather spend that time making music or if I had to do reading, i’d read about music theory or production techniques.
I’m done with this period. I conceded ages ago now I’m not sure what some of you want from me, this just seems to be an exercise in pedantry of the highest form.
Not sure if this forum is for me, nobody answered when I asked for help on unity ages ago and it seems the only way to get a response is by making provocative statements. I’m sorry to the people who are sincere and friendly and fun you make it worthwhile but wow some of you tech guys are real buzz kills. I’m gonna stop wasting time on this thread and start wasting it with my gf (it not a synth I mean girlfriend)
Addendum
@kingof9x you posted just before I finished. Thanks again for the work you put into this, your one of my good guys. 
If defense of this forum:
I don’t think it is the place for unity questions. Personally I spent a couple hours following some tutorials on youtube to get myself a rotating cube that does a couple things. I quickly realized that I don’t have the patience to teach myself unity enough to make things I want. Instead anytime I see someone selling or giving away video packs I buy them and send them encouraging messages. The facebook, and probably unity specific forums are probobly a better place for that - OP-Z Videolab
I think we have lost allot of members over the years for various reasons. Domain name change, forum migrations, rise and ease of use of other social media platforms… The facebook groups seem to have way more activity. I guess people in general would rather just use the social media they already use instead of joining a forum for nerds. I am not a huge facebook fan and I don’t see as many topics that get into the weeds like this thread in facebook groups. I see allot more people posting what they made and allot of questions that could be answered by reading the manual. I also think we have alot of people who don’t use english as a first language. Even people who do use english as a first language have trouble not sounding curt when communicating with text. 
Thanks for the topic! have fun with your gf, but don’t leave the forum!
In defense of reading. If you learn by reading you won’t have to waste time making topics like this.
So that is a win win like they say
To me, those definitions linked support analog being defined in two ways in relation to music: 1) if data is stored in a physical medium using a method that serves as an analogy to the data it represents. Think of vinyl or tape, where the music “data” is stored as physical waves = analog, vs CD which stores the data as bits of data that have been extracted through a digital process. 2) An electronic device with an analog signal path, meaning that at all points from creation (a wave represented by a changing voltage) to modification (filter or envelope modifies changing voltage) the signal is a voltage that is analogous to the sound wave. To me, something with a DCO is still analog, even though the oscillators are controlled digitally. Something like a DX-7 is not analog. TE has only made digital devices.
Outside of sound storage/reproduction and synthesizers/drum machines/effects pedals/etc., the distinction becomes silly. Something like a guitar or microphone are electromechanical devices, and should not be considered “analog.”
To be clear, I make no judgement of what people prefer. If someone wants to exclusively listen to music through a wax cylinder, that is fine by me.
What about the new motor synth made by interfacing an electromagnetic field with a guitar pickup? I think that manufacturer tried to avoid the whole topic by calling it the worlds first electro mechanical synth.