But its 9 pattern per track (16 tracks x 9 = 144 patterns) in 99 scenes is not that restrictive for one song is it or am I missing something
I agree, but they do have added push functionality = UI flow.
They do though feel a bit toyish vs encoders on high-end synths IMO (but this is from limited first contact trying out OP1 at a friends place but it bugs me it’s not scaled to: one click = 1value
this physicall interaction with parameters via encoders reflects in ‘‘feel’’… Just as any steering in any machinery …
So is there a reason TE stuck with these ‘‘military grade’’ encoders?
How is it done on the XY? …
I cant figure out wtf is going on in that line … I thought it was a rather good looking device (not seen one in person) as in Darth Vader good looking
Is it like Darth Vader in Christmass dress good looking or …
BINGO !!! You just won the thread … that’s quite the latency time … what gives? … do you have link
It’s not done on the XY. The OP-XY can’t do this. That feature is missing from the OP-Z. If you have an XY, try adding a note, then moving up two octaves and adding another note—it’s simply not possible.
First off, I was referring to the instrument tracks—there are only eight, so 8×9 equals 72 patterns. I believe nine patterns work well for the non-instrument tracks.
Secondly, you’re likely to play more than one instrument, which will consume additional patterns, and you might run out quickly. If you’re only making repetitive four-to-the-floor techno, it may be sufficient, but once you start experimenting, you might eventually exhaust your patterns.
Additionally, I prefer not to move instruments around; for example, if I have a lead on track six, I keep it there to avoid losing track of it when opening up more patterns. This is just my personal perspective, and if that approach works for you, that’s perfectly fine.
The first video shows the random delay issue. The second video demonstrates that samples, including factory ones, will sometimes not play. In the third video, one of my encoders is starting to jump backward. This is something that has happened to me in the past with my OP-1 Field.
Edited: latency was from my speaker and not the device. Disregard the latency issue if you’re reading.
So the latency is happening without the unit running? That’s not a CPU thing, strange, when does this happen? and can anyone relate?
Besides what can be addressed with firmware, the encoder issues are just not acceptable on a unit in this price range.No words or reason exscuse this this does not even happening on sub $300 units, volcas, sonicware Aria compact etc… hell pick up a Roland synth for the 80s and the data wheel will almost always function perfectly…
For all the TE brilliance in design and code the encoders are an alarming oversight, this is just a few extra dollars (literary) in mechanical prints… Its may have reflected in added retail of $20 more …
It would have been banging with 4x Akai style jog wheel feel
I would recommend (as Im sure the XY is going to be a bestseller in the upcoming years) to resolve this ASAP
Yhea Im talking MK2 with better build and multicolor LEDs for better UI experiance, I’ve seen pitch bend issues, buttons fall off and these encoders are just a really poor design decision.
If TE dont address this; someone tech-savy should look at doing knob replacements I’m sure it will be a booming business addressing 1/3 of the XY sale$ in the years to come.
There shouldn’t be anything cheap about $2200 unit
I dont know if you’ve noticed but the XY raised the game, it sounds way better than any other groove box, stereo imaging is amazing as is the clarity and detail! Ever heard a better reverb in a sampler? It’s a level up from previous sampler groovebox generations. Nothing comes close to right now.
The XY is nearly perfect for me (I have yet to add a few suggestions) but on the whole I really gel with the design concept and features . Basically if you threw one into a pool full of alligators and snakes and told me it was mine if I dive for it … I’d look you’d dead serious in the eyes and ask if I can use a scuba mask…
Not yet, just monitoring, l’ll give it unitl super booth 25 (two months away) to see how the unit matures, other companies have hinted at some very long awaited realest (RS7000 km2, New SP16, Akai 3.0 hardware, Circuits Pro. Aria Pro) but the resolution not just in sequencer smoothness but in sound fidelity and FX is a new benchmark for all others to follow. Even if Korg brings out a banging '25 Elektribe with tubes and real-time timestreaching it will still need a serious creative refresh to compete with everything XY has to offer… I mean just the 16-hour power cycle …its just wow… amiss the encoders /build) it’s an ace of an instrument 360°
This it’s when plugged into a speaker and very random an rare. Maybe there’s latency outside of the 3.5mm output because there’s never any latency when using the built-in speaker. I’ll have to do some more messing around to see what the cause is. However, the samples not playing is a hardware issue. This happens constantly and I have to keep resetting the device to get them to start playing. When using the multi sample and pressing different keys the sample don’t change like it supposed to. it’s almost like it’s frozen or something and it extremally annoying!! I would wait to see if this is fixed.
This is the same issue that happened with my OP-1 Field after excessive sample chopping. I had to get a replacement and haven’t used my OP-1 Field enough to see if it will happen again. I thought it might have been due to the encoders getting snagged when pulling it in and out of the field case, but I’ve been using a desk saver on the OP-XY since day one and it’s starting to do the exact same thing. I’ve spent far more hours on the OP-XY than on my OP-1 Field replacement, so I’m pretty sure this issue will start happening again if I use it more. I really thought they would change the encoders from the OP-1 Field, but instead they changed the button mechanics and kept the encoders the same, which I just can’t wrap my head around. The OP-1 Field buttons feel so much better than those on the OP-XY. I’m pretty sure they won’t fix the issue because they would have with the OP-1 Field. You just need to keep that in mind and use your encoders only when necessary, sadly. I’m almost certain that when I get mine repaired, they’re going to be the exact same encoders.
However, I’ve said my piece on the matter, and I still love the OP-XY—maybe not as much as the OP-Z, but very close. I’m still praying for more instrument patterns and the ability to do parameter locks for the arp .
Encoders seem to have more issues than normal potentiometers. I have not worked with encoders in my capacity as an engineer, so I can’t comment on the possible technical issues. What I can say is that there is a definite difference in quality among encoders as there will be among many components.
The encoders on my Cirklon v2 seem to run without any issues. I have not had issues with the encoders on my OP-XY so far, so maybe some units are more susceptible than others in this regard. There is always a range of what is in spec vs what is out of spec for manufactured parts and then there is the quality with a range of cost to manufacture. I don’t know where the components of the OP-XY fit in such a range, but I do know that the Cirklon has high quality components throughout but its price reflects that as should the OP-XY.
If the unit had 50 encoders sure it might play a significant role in print, but 4 encoders , its peanuts, these parts are in the dollar categories.
For example I ordered a click encoder for my microwave1 on eBay the price was around 15euro iirc. This is from a buyer making a profit on one item. When you order these for commercial engineering in bulk orders of tens of thousands they are floating under 5 euros for high quality ones, cheep ones are going to be in the cents pricing …
It’s just a baffling to not use the highest grade encoders on a + 2 grad device with 4x encoders
When one is involved in the development of a product, a part of that (at least in my personal experience) is to design FOR manufacturability. A large part of that is to design such that the build can be consistently repeatable in large quantities, and another is the cost of the parts used in the design. Over the course of manufacturing thousands of units, what seems an insignificant difference in price between two similar components becomes a significant cost across many units. Since I am not an employee of TE, I don’t have access to those numbers.
Typically, a small company such as TE will necessarily be cost conscious, and little differences in the price of a component will matter when generating enough revenue to keep things moving. I have worked for start-ups as well as large, established companies and saw these price pressures all the time in each situation.
Another problem that comes up is when a vendor EOLs (end of life) a component crucial to the product you are building. Typically, in such cases, you will buy a large supply of that part to buy you time to redesign the product for a replacement part as well as maintaining a stock of the old parts for replacement in existing products in the field.
None of this explains exactly what TE is doing with their decision to use one part over another potentially higher quality part, but it does hopefully provide a view into the process that I experienced across companies of a variety of sizes and conditions.
In the consumer market, producers are dealing with trying to keep the cost of the product affordable (though maybe not so much for TE with the OP-1, OP-1 Field, and OP-XY ), while in the commercial market we want to build products that last under less than ideal conditions and the price point is sometimes not nearly as sensitive. So it may well be that there are considerations in the consumer market that I am missing, since that is not where my experience lies.
isn’t it also possible that the encoders are high quality and a faulty one squeaking through the QA process is inevitable and the rest of us with good encoders just aren’t bringing up how non-faulty they are?
Of course. That is a given. There is to be expected a small percentage of parts out of spec in some manner. If the problem isn’t widespread, then it would be a safe assumption that the cause is a faulty part.
For most electronic devices, the warranty covers parts or maybe parts and labor for a specified period of time for this reason.
I encountered a similar issue with my OP-1 Field. After returning it for a replacement, I haven’t experienced any problems with the new unit. However, I must admit I’ve used it significantly less than the previous one that had issues. While I’m not dismissing your point, I believe the likelihood of encountering another faulty encoder on a different device is low. To protect my OP-XY, I keep it in the Field case with a plastic dust cover that protects the keys and encoder when not in use.
I’ve documented the encoder issues with my previous OP-1 Field in this video:
I’ve had the OP-XY for about two months now—I bought it as soon as it was released. Once again, on paper, it looks great, but in practice—and as is often the case with Teenage Engineering products—it’s disappointing, bordering on a scam.
How can you justify a €2,300 arranger that doesn’t allow for basic operations like copying and pasting notes, organizing patterns, shifting notes in time (I mean an entire sequence, not just micro-timing), copying and pasting scenes, and so on?
The editing capabilities of this machine are abysmal—shameful for the price. The KO2 and OP-Z do a better job! It’s borderline fraudulent.
On top of that, there are an alarming number of bugs, the internal memory is very limited, and with just three or four slightly complex instruments, the machine is already pushed to its limits… Two OP-Zs are better than one OP-XY, and a single Deluge is better than the entire Teenage Engineering product line.
With all due respect, if the XY speaker does not reflect latency, then it’s not timing latency but a connection problem or the speaker,
change cable and speaker next time to rule out the external factor, if the problem is still present, then it’s likely the output stage of the XY, but it might be just prior to the actual outputs as electric current is instant and thus it’s before the output analog circuit and I would assume that renders the issue as faulty unit
Yeah, totally my fault—it was just the speakers I was using that had latency, which was confusing because I had the device plugged in and wasn’t using Bluetooth or anything. Definitely my mistake.
However, I know the encoder is an issue and isn’t software-related—it’s a hardware problem. I’ve already had my OP-1 Field replaced once because of it, and now my OP-XY is going to have to be replaced too. Even some of the other encoders on my OP-XY are starting to show the same problem, and it only gets worse over time. They really should’ve used the OP-Z encoder design instead. I’ve never had this issue with those. The only problem I had was one of them popping out, but that was due to me pulling on the encoder. Once I stopped doing that, I haven’t had any problems—and I’ve used the OP-Z encoders way more than I’ve ever used the ones on the OP-1 Field or OP-XY.
Also, I forgot to mention that while holding shift and adjusting a parameter, then letting go of shift won’t move the parameter back to its original position like on the OP-Z. When you hold shift, it won’t let you adjust the parameters at all, which is strange. Hopefully, all the features missing from the OP-Z are added in future updates. But, like people always say, never count on it.
100% … I can relate to the OP encoders,
I actually had one break down when demoing an OP1 original in a Music store in Norway few yeas back. The guy looked at me like: ‘‘you brake it you pay for it’’ for a few seconds as I explained I was doing nothing abnormal in force, so I dont doubt their fuction at all…
Also they make noise … I dont know if that was a TE design decision to give vibes; as in Teen or toy /youth … as I can tell you everyone else on that 8 hour flight with a sleep mask hates you more than that baby that had a two our fit in the beginning of the flight
The Z encoders are also more practical as in portability (damage protection) due to; flatness and serve to a much better workflow.
We are talking about a DAW you are going to have high hours on it over the years,
so its:
reaching out with your fingers to spin a disc; a few ticks or a cycle
vs
having to move your hand, bend your wrist and twist your fingers
@ Deek311
or am I missing something
… that’s quite the latency time … what gives? … do you have link
this does not even happening on sub $300 units, volcas, sonicware Aria compact etc… hell pick up a Roland synth for the 80s and the data wheel will almost always function perfectly…
the encoders are an alarming oversight, this is just a few extra dollars (literary) in mechanical prints… Its may have reflected in added retail of $20 more … 
. Basically if you threw one into a pool full of alligators and snakes and told me it was mine if I dive for it … I’d look you’d dead serious in the eyes and ask if I can use a scuba mask… 
), while in the commercial market we want to build products that last under less than ideal conditions and the price point is sometimes not nearly as sensitive. So it may well be that there are considerations in the consumer market that I am missing, since that is not where my experience lies.
