Coders always seem to get defensive when non-coders ask a certain kind of question. I was never assuming this stuff to be easy. But in the same way that a musician might spend 3 or 4 years making a great album, purely as a labor of love in spare time, it just seems like a possible parallel to imagine a coder doing the same with an OS/piece of hardware. But there doesn’t seem to be very many, like not a massively increased amount even though you only need to check the appstore to see that it seems to be within quite a lot of people’s potential capabilities if they had the same kind of obsession/labor of love for it that some musicians do with an LP. Obviously there are exceptions otherwise there wouldn’t be OP1, Elektron, Deluge, Gotharman. Not a lot really though…
Organelle £380 at DV …
Organelle £380 at DV ...The organelle is probably the closest thing there is out there to the OP-1.Don't think it's worth someone's bother to copy the OP-1. If you have the skills to build something then you'll want to build something unique.In terms of cost of the OP-1, I recognise that there's a lot of dev time that goes into the software side and the integration, then there's the cost of tooling and manufacture, then the marketing, peoples wages, rent etc.I don't think that the total comes that close to the end price though. I do think that TE charge a bit of a premium on their products to buy the 'name' much the same as Apple do. It probably helps the bosses afford their classic sports cars though ;)I've not got a problem with this pricing though. Its a premium product coming from a tight and skilled team.
Yeah, obvs something unique could be potentially even more appealing than a straight OP upgrade.
Cracks me up when people compare TE to Apple and say the pricing is fair enough. Screw apple! That company sucks so hard… Embodies a lot of what’s rotten in modern society. But from what I read I guess Apple at least used top spec hardware. Not sure I feel the same about TE. This forum is flooded with hardware failure/problems…
This forum is flooded with hardware failure/problems...
well you wouldn’t expect to see “Everything’s a-ok!” posts from every person who’s OP-1 is in perfect working order…
This forum is flooded with hardware failure/problems...
well you wouldn’t expect to see “Everything’s a-ok!” posts from every person who’s OP-1 is in perfect working order…
a “flood” of failure posts can’t really be used to reliably gauge the quality of the device.
Yeah I get that But there still seems to be a lot of issues relative to the size of the user base…
My OP had issues straight out the box and needed to be returned. Issues that some other users on the forum replied to and had just been ‘living with’ and were now outside their warranty cos they thought it was par for the course (the sequencer randomly starting, patch randomly switching). My Analog keys screen is fading after a year with minimal use. Expensive doesn’t necessarily = great quality/quality control…
Edit - though thankfully it does seem to = decent customer support 
the op1 is six years old. you are buying cheap as fuck hardware. at the time of its release it was prolly a more realistic number like $300. i bet its much cheaper now. The real cost when using the chipset they went with is the software to develop on it. Its a black fin i think. and Black fin really charges you for the ability to code on their devices not so much the chips themselves. the money seems to be in the software the company can control years later like the adobe suite currently is.STM's(arm chips) blow those six year old chips outta the water and cost $15bucks(way cheaper then a black fin) for some of the more advanced ones. Basically a full computer. even the new raspi's are pretty crazy. TE seems pretty wise and im sure they had good reason to go with the chip sets they chose. I bet the metal case is were the price shot up somewhat but after all these years Im sure they have that under control.In reality you didnt buy the op1 for its Horsepower. you bought it for its ability to make and inspire music. it does that great. money well spent. I bought it at launch. id prolly be hesitant to pay that same price all these years later though. TE can get away with this. there is zero competition in the market. Ipad doesnt fit the same Standalone hardware aspect and no app comes close_ although using all the apps tieing together with audiobus and recording into an ios DAW like auria or garage band is far more bang for your buck and its what i usually recommend to the $ conscious musician who asks me if they should get an op1. I had to have an op1 nobody was gonna dissuade me i bought it. for the form factor not for the build cost which at this point is most likely much lower then most people realize. but as others have said the beauty is in the software and the continued updates. shit id be happy with zero updates. the op1 was amazing day one for me and id still be using it regardless of updates.if your question is about DIYing your own version of an op1 then i bet you could do it for <$100encoders- $10 for a bag of 20Screen-$10Processor-$20 plus a dev kit maybe($10) this can vary widely id skip arduino as itll be missing lots of great stuff like usb, wifi etc. modern stuff.but if you dont know shit arduino is a good place to start. check out Pinchettes mutable instruments eurorack synth files on github both the PCB;s and the Code is available for free to download. could pretty easy copy pasta like most people used to do on arduino. they all use stm's for the most part. for instance braids code as your voices would be amazing.DAC, amplifier etc- $10audio ports-$5Battery-$20tact switches(although they arent so playable)-$1 for 100eventually get your design made into PCB's $25(revisions +25 i.e. new boards)Case- ive been into pcb cases which can look amazing and be pretty cheap.(but thatll come last id imagine...)I love DIY shit so id be happy to help. seriosuly im super into this.also wtf korg get your shit together and compete with the op1.
Forgot to reply to this. Thanks a lot for the detailed info/insights. You should start on coding/building something! Wish I had skills in this area 
Might look in to the study path as a long term work/hobby interest… Guessing it’s pretty hardcore time commitment and possibly expensive tho.
Most of the coders who I know have very little time for anything else, such as enjoying the fruits of their labours and making music, it is often a labour of love, and one that does not always pay well, so this is probably another reason why they are not queing up to make the next OP1
The Organelle whilst a cool package is not much more than a raspberry pi/beaglebone type board wrappd up with some music specific hardware, and a custom bootloader running pure data. It would be far easier to come up with a competitor to the Organelle than the OP1.
But as I said, nothing against the idea amd if anyone comes up with such a product I might be interested:)
If folks want to start building something, how about start at a smaller and more achievable scale? Such as:
Build a replacement I/O board for the existing jack board. It’s relatively accessible and removable. Replace the dated USB mini connector with USB C. Make it so that it can establish itself in host mode to alleviate the need for an external device for midi. You shouldn’t need to hack the OP1 OS. Granted, you may need a custom USB C within the form factor of the outside of a USB mini jack, but that level of hardware development is likewise finite.
just that pesky little problem of intellectual property to get around, right?
@callofthevoid It seems like you are one of the most passionate people about OP-1’s shortcomings and the need for a replacement. I think you found the guy to create the next big OP-2!
@callofthevoid It seems like you are one of the most passionate people about OP-1's shortcomings and the need for a replacement. I think you found the guy to create the next big OP-2!I'll throw in $10 towards the cost of some knobs to get you started, which puts you at about 10% done when you consider the pile of parts needed to get the next gen done.
Wtf? Did you even read what I wrote? If it doesn’t interest you to think of advancement then just ignore the thread. The current OP1 came from people thinking about pushing things forward. It’s not a bad thing…
@callofthevoid Sorry, I came in a little hot there. Yes I totally agree with wanting new technologies. I had considered backing the KDJ-One for this reason, as it seems like an OP-1 type device (but glad I didn’t because people don’t seem confident that it will ever come out). The disconnect seems to be between people making cool DIY type projects like Eurorack and guitar pedals that require a single function to be done well (either through specialized circuitry or through programming) versus creating an all-in-one thing like OP-1. The amount of code required to get everything to work seamlessly with multiple functions operating at the same time is far greater than that of a simpler project. That being said, some people do have the ability to tackle it all on their own. Look at the Sonic Potions LXR and Where The Party At sampler and those were both largely done by one guy. Even those leverage the work of some other people though. The OP-1 took many years to release with 3+ people working on it full time – as a “passion project” for someone in their free time after getting off a full day of work would probably take much longer than that. Maybe there are several OP-1 replacements being worked on part-time in the past 6 years?
@callofthevoid Sorry, I came in a little hot there. Yes I totally agree with wanting new technologies. I had considered backing the KDJ-One for this reason, as it seems like an OP-1 type device (but glad I didn't because people don't seem confident that it will ever come out). The disconnect seems to be between people making cool DIY type projects like Eurorack and guitar pedals that require a single function to be done well (either through specialized circuitry or through programming) versus creating an all-in-one thing like OP-1. The amount of code required to get everything to work seamlessly with multiple functions operating at the same time is far greater than that of a simpler project. That being said, some people do have the ability to tackle it all on their own. Look at the Sonic Potions LXR and Where The Party At sampler and those were both largely done by one guy. Even those leverage the work of some other people though. The OP-1 took many years to release with 3+ people working on it full time -- as a "passion project" for someone in their free time after getting off a full day of work would probably take much longer than that. Maybe there are several OP-1 replacements being worked on part-time in the past 6 years?The reason I get frustrated (and several other people on this thread) is the reductionist attitude of "all electronics are is some parts and some code so why don't all you engineers just go ahead and make the next one already?!?" Programming on its own is not easy at the level of full OS or applications. When you add to that having to interface with hardware it gets more complicated. When you add to that having to generate thousands of those it gets even more complicated. When you top that with having to operate a company with legal, marketing, HR, secretaries, gathering funding for products that haven't launched yet, etc, it gets a lot more complicated. Appealing to people by saying "just do it as a passion project" isn't how passion projects work. If people are passionate about it then they will do it regardless of this thread. If someone sees the business opportunity and wants to make a bunch of money, then they will do it regardless of this thread. This thread isn't doing much more than lamenting the lack of progress.If you really want to create the next OP-1 and advance technology, then you already have a start. You created a list of specs you would want to see in an improved OP-1. Take that to a software developer and have him/her quote the cost it would take to develop that for you based on hardware that you think you would want to use. Then source the money to have that work done, which you are guaranteed to make back if you create an OP-1 killer and sell it at the price point that TE have already established as the amount of money people are willing to spend for the device they have provided. I completely agree that the business opportunity is there. A device that competes in the market of Elektron devices, OP-1, MPC Live, etc. will for sure make a boatload of cash as long as the quality is up to par with all of those extremely well-built devices. I genuinely think that if you are passionate about seeing a next gen OP-1, then you should do it. Waiting for someone else to do all of the hard work, otherwise, just requires patience and enjoying what you currently have.
It’s cool, no need to apologise I basically agree with everything you just wrote. Im a broke, stay at home dad with zero coding so it’s not really something I can begin to think about doing myself, even in collaboration. I guess I’m just more impatient than a lot of people due to circumstances. 3 years ago I was releasing records and touring. Now I’m lucky to get half an hour at night for music. Just gets frustrating having your head plagued by ideas that you can’t make happen. OP1 was/is a godsend but I still hit (non-creative) limitations…
But you’re right. Progress will happen at its own pace. Just sucks im getting old in the meantime Would love a powerhouse sofa jam box ASAP Akai Live looks really promising…And like you say, odds are there are a bunch of passion projects in development that we don’t know about yet.
Think I have an organelle coming so I’m going to try to learn PD when I get some time and see how that goes Maybe somewhere way down the line I could look at making my own similar box. Long, long way off tho…
A big part of the appeal of the OP-1 is the attention they paid to design. A lot of hard (and probably expensive) work went into making sure everything was just-so and all of the graphics added up to a theme.
Creating the next big thing is a pretty huge ask.
Creating the next big thing is a pretty huge ask.No matter what you do there will ALWAYS be someone pointing out "man, if ONLY it did THIS or THAT!"Most likely the reasons for devices or software not being able to "do this or that" is down to cost or time.- Is it REALLY worthwhile having our team work for two weeks just to have crossfader-curve functionality?- We have to restrict the memory to 2GB as taking it up to 8GB will increase the end cost by £X of each unit.etc etc ...Then each of these little time additions and costs add up to make an unrealistic deadline or cost.Yes it would be amazing, but not a LOT of people are going to spend £2k on a pocketable portable digital synth and sampler - it would be a real REAL niche market.
I wouldn’t pay £2000 either we’re just talking cpu/ram/storage advancement and parallel ‘features advancement’ kind of stuff tho right (besides the casing)? And tech stuff gets cheaper every year… Isn’t that rumoured mpc chip/board (whatever the correct term is like $99 and plenty powerful enough to make a very serious portable unit based on Linux? 2 grand seems like a crazy number!?
A big part of the appeal of the OP-1 is the attention they paid to design. A lot of hard (and probably expensive) work went into making sure everything was just-so and all of the graphics added up to a theme.
^This is pretty much exactly what I’ve been thinking since I saw this post.
From what it looks like, TE was established by a few people 2005ish and OP-1 was announced 2010. At that point there were 9 people on the team. How they made it 5 years with no product selling and 9 employees gives you an idea that creating the OP-1 required something more than just passion. Does anyone know how they were funded before launch?
im attempting to become an instrument designer builder w/e the fuck. so excuse my noobliness and/or over confidence.
From what it looks like, TE was established by a few people 2005ish and OP-1 was announced 2010. At that point there were 9 people on the team. How they made it 5 years with no product selling and 9 employees gives you an idea that creating the OP-1 required something more than just passion. Does anyone know how they were funded before launch?
- Maybe being underfunded and having to adapt was part of the reason it took until 2011 to bring it to market. Maybe TE didn’t work on it all the time. 9 people full time is a substantial burn rate (but they didn’t start with all 9); that with some generous upfront funding/investment is probably how the OP1 ended up being costed the way it currently is. I doubt there’s any argument about where the OP1’s cost comes from - the bill of materials itself, and for this particular build, is probably peanuts in comparison to the overall cost of design effort. The not-so-obvious costs are everywhere, in marketing, admin, sales, etc, and even in engineering - interference issues, power design, dsp, getting it certified. I doubt @Callofthevoid was somehow suggesting that it’s a weekend project to kick off an OP2.With e.g iPad being around now, the bar is raised for what a music machine is expected to do, and at what level of quality, reliability, hardware polish, and cost. No less market space for hardware units but a bigger ask for production consistency, playing nice with other kit, use case flexibility, and courage to carve a market niche alongside big players with long traditions, heaps of engineering knowhow, and marketing to match.