Coders always seem to get defensive when non-coders ask a certain kind of question. I was never assuming this stuff to be easy.
That's because on one or the other side of the conversation, the Dunning-Kruger effect kicks in and one of the two discussing parties is highly overestimating its capabilities. If it's the coder, he thinks he is a god and can do things nobody else can, especially not the noob that asks the dumb questions. If it's the non-coder, he debates why the coder doesn't do x, because it must be so easy given all that technology advancement and whatnot.
Both scenarios don't end well.
Coming back to a more technical perspective on the whole thing: * OP-1 was build on the blackfin DSP series of chips. Back then™. I guess no one in this forum can name a reason, I suspect one of the TE team already worked with those cpus or Analog devices had a really good sales pitch. * The "OS" itself is not written by TE! It's the VDK by analog devices. * Many technologies in the OP-1 weren't developed by TE (SQLite dbs, SVGs, aiff format, some sound engines,....)
But if people say "here, take a raspberry PI and just create a better, cheaper version of the OP-1" that misses the point.
If the point of this thread was to just find out the "rough cost of combined parts", it has gone way off…
The OP1 (which we all love) is starting to be considered “dated”.
From a hardware side, why is this: processor and I/O.
So what if TE came out with a device that uses an external processor for all of the synth/seq/recording etc, and external I/O that attach to it?
Then you wouldn’t have to worry about the CPU/DSP being obsoleted right when it finally goes to market. If it could merely use a smartphone or a tablet, those devices could use apps from TE that has the user experience, and the hardware could be simpler and not as prone to becoming dated.
The smartphone/tablet engine could be upgraded by the user as they become more powerful and as new interfaces (USB c, Bluetooth midi, etc) become adopted.
The hardware from TE could resemble the OP1, but wouldn’t need a screen as that would be on the smartphone/tablet.
Ok. Now look at the OPZ.
This is confusing. It sounds like you are describing a situation in which TE develops an app where all sound creation, sequencing, and so on are done within the app. Then TE would release a hardware controller that only controls the app like a Bluetooth MIDI keyboard controller might do. Basically, what Akai did with the MPC line in recent years.
Are you saying this is the same as what the OPZ is? From what I’ve seen the OPZ is a complete standalone product that can be extended (mostly visually) by attaching it to a phone or monitor. Have you seen something otherwise (non-facetious question)? I certainly hope the OPZ can be used without an app, but would love to see it extended by an app. This would be great for the OP-1, also, but I think that ship has sailed – mostly because the hardware might not be present for interacting with the OP-1 on this level.
I had a look back over the thead to pull out the main opinions and here are mine.
A significant portion of the cost of the OP-1 is for the design and development rather than the bits and pieces of hardware, and I feel my money is well spent.
It would not be easy (on the scale of writing an spp) for anyone to copy/improve the OP-1.
I was perfectly happy with my OP-1 from new. I would still have kept it, regardless of any upgrade.
I and many musicians who depend on their instruments need those instruments to be stable and do in tonight’s performance or studio session the same thing they did last night.
An OP-1 is not an iPhone. Neither is it the mechanism I want to use to get my consumerist fix of pseudo-necessary technical change.
CB
I feel like people are arguing for the sake of it a little.
Yeah it would be difficult for anyone to copy/improve on OP1. But that’s a given. Not sure why people are insistent on stating the obvious. Look at what that guy just built with the deluge. Is he the only guy on planet earth with comparable chops/motivation to TE/Elektron etc? I know Deluge isn’t the same thing. But seems comparable in terms of depth.
I’ve just been trying to say that the spec is becoming dated/affordable. Op does what it does great and I use it almost every day. But nothing wrong with hoping to see someone bring out an Op2 style device that does away with the stuff that is total vibe killer/hassle/pita. Mostly memory/backup/naming/saving related. Anything else would be a bonus.
Roland did it with the Sp404 to Sp404sx. That wasn’t for ‘pseudo technical change’. The tweaks were useful and asked for. Altho they did screw some fx etc up in the wash Roland are good at that tho…
A good potential solution to the vibe killer/hassle/pita stuff you mentioned is something which has been mentioned in other threads, the Kingston Mobilelite wireless devices. I used the original to successfully transfer files to and from SD cards via my Ipad. I just ordered the newer version (in matching OP1-white:) which also provides a 5400mAh battery charger as well as an ethernet port to serve as a wireless access point. https://www.kingston.com/us/wireless/wireless_readers/mlwg3
I had a look back over the thead to pull out the main opinions and here are mine.
A significant portion of the cost of the OP-1 is for the design and development rather than the bits and pieces of hardware, and I feel my money is well spent.
It would not be easy (on the scale of writing an spp) for anyone to copy/improve the OP-1.
I was perfectly happy with my OP-1 from new. I would still have kept it, regardless of any upgrade.
I and many musicians who depend on their instruments need those instruments to be stable and do in tonight’s performance or studio session the same thing they did last night.
An OP-1 is not an iPhone. Neither is it the mechanism I want to use to get my consumerist fix of pseudo-necessary technical change.
CB
I feel like people are arguing for the sake of it a little.
Yeah it would be difficult for anyone to copy/improve on OP1. But that’s a given. Not sure why people are insistent on stating the obvious. Look at what that guy just built with the deluge. Is he the only guy on planet earth with comparable chops/motivation to TE/Elektron etc? I know Deluge isn’t the same thing. But seems comparable in terms of depth.
I’ve just been trying to say that the spec is becoming dated/affordable. Op does what it does great and I use it almost every day. But nothing wrong with hoping to see someone bring out an Op2 style device that does away with the stuff that is total vibe killer/hassle/pita. Mostly memory/backup/naming/saving related. Anything else would be a bonus.
Roland did it with the Sp404 to Sp404sx. That wasn’t for ‘pseudo technical change’. The tweaks were useful and asked for. Altho they did screw some fx etc up in the wash Roland are good at that tho…
A good potential solution to the vibe killer/hassle/pita stuff you mentioned is something which has been mentioned in other threads, the Kingston Mobilelite wireless devices. I used the original to successfully transfer files to and from SD cards via my Ipad. I just ordered the newer version (in matching OP1-white:) which also provides a 5400mAh battery charger as well as an ethernet port to serve as a wireless access point. https://www.kingston.com/us/wireless/wireless_readers/mlwg3
+1 on the Mobilelite. It is so easy to use and adds practically unlimited storage to the OP-1. Great for backups on the go.
* OP-1 was build on the blackfin DSP series of chips. Back then™. I guess no one in this forum can name a reason, I suspect one of the TE team already worked with those cpus or Analog devices had a really good sales pitch.
The reason is latency.
Aim of DSP is predictable (or constant) timing and usually very low delay between enacting a change and that change taking place. A certain number of cycles per unit of time becomes the budget for every feature. It’s complicated to “use an external CPU”, and non-trivial to use e.g. GPUs for realtime computation outside of their own dedicated memory (this is changing). Relative longevity, because it just works, is nice about DSP. Also one does not simply rebuild the OP1 to use different parts.
I know this thread was originally just about the cost to replicate the OP-1, but it also had the assumption that the OP-1 could be replicated.
To me, the OP-1 is a complete object, physically and virtually. When I pick it up it’s a single entity and not an amalgamation of parts. When I use it I am in it’s total and unique environment. Every aspect is interconnected to become one. It’s amazing design.
It would probably cost more to make a perfect copy of the OP-1, and I wouldn’t be interested unless it was a perfect copy. I’m not even sure it’s even possible.
op1 could easily be cloned. come on china. everything is an engineering problem. and anything is solvable. id even be happy with a far less sophisticated op1- like just a monosynth with completly editable routings, several channels for decay manipulation of like noise and stuff for drums. and some effects. Id buy that. opz might be very close.
i like to think that on first contact with alien life, us and them spend hours exchanging information etc. Decide to take a break and the alien/s whip out a device that looks eerily similar to the op1. because good design is exactly that.
long live the op1. ill prolly be buried with it lol.
Roland are good at that tho… 