Someone wants me to produce their record, but I'm afraid... advice me

OP-1 Help
1

Hey dudes,


I thought I’d reach out to y’all, as I can’t air this publicly for obvious reasons, and I don’t have any close friends who are producers… And I have relative anonymity here.

There is a young lady who plays acoustic folk kinda music, and she has asked me to produce her record. I said I’d do it for a pretty low price, as she doesn’t have a high budget, and I want to help her… The thing is that her first record (EP) sounds great, and she wants to be super minimal and acoustic with this next one… TBH, I’m not super thrilled by her new compositions too, so I feel like helping her write some new jams would be in order, or help to tweak her current jams to be a bit more hookier… OK, she has expressed that she wants to remain true to herself, and record the songs very close to how she plays live (solo with an acoustic guitar), but she also wants to try to build her fan base and go for airplay, and we all know that solo acoustic music isn’t exactly the hottest new sound if you’re looking for airplay… The thing is, my passion is for kinda destroying sounds, so I feel like I’m not going to do a good job, but I’ve already agreed to do it… Plus I’m really busy with my own jams over the next two months, so I don’t know if I should commit… Although I’ve already said I would… I haven’t quoted nothing, but I’m quoted a flat rate for the whole project…

I’ve been very clear with her that more edgy and indie sounds are my forte ie. I’ve suggested kitschy drum machines, toy pianos, claps and group chants as a way for her to develop into a more unique artist… But I struggle with self confidence, ie. I know that I have a good view of what sounds good, and I can hear a lot of detail in music that many musicans can’t, but I doubt myself for personal reasons… The whole thing is causing me a bit of anxiety (which I’m prone to)… Sorry for overshare, but y’all are a cool bunch, so there it is.

I’ve asked her to clarify what she expects of me, she says - <span style=“background-color: rgb(167, 255, 235); color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87); font-family: “Roboto Slab”, “Times New Roman”, serif; font-size: 14px; font-variant-ligatures: none; white-space: pre-wrap;”>She bring songs… We go through them… We get the songs ready in pre-prod… Help to make things run smooth in the pre-production… Attend the recording sessions…
<span style=“background-color: rgb(167, 255, 235); color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87); font-family: “Roboto Slab”, “Times New Roman”, serif; font-size: 14px; font-variant-ligatures: none; white-space: pre-wrap;”>
tl;dr - a young lady who makes music in a less crazy genre that what I’m used to has asked me to produce her record, I’m scared that I’ll do a bad job, what should I do?

Any thoughts welcome, don’t think you need to be an experienced & highly sought after producer to chime in.
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Tbh it sounds like could be a constant tug of war in studio. That scenario is never fun :confused: Guess it depends how rigid she is about keeping the recordings true to her live performance and how keen you are to help her out…

You could just kinda detach yourself from it and just go through the motions and get it done fast. Would = less stress and less disappointment from having ideas constantly rejected etc. While still helping her out and throwing the occasional idea in the mix…

But it sounds like she’s kinda firm on not wanting the kind of stuff you’re interested in adding. And you said you’re not really in to her new material… Doesn’t bode great in terms of collaboration :wink: So maybe just take the easy road, do it how she wants, help her out, get paid a little and move on :wink:

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Tbh it sounds like could be a constant tug of war in studio. That scenario is never fun :/ Guess it depends how rigid she is about keeping the recordings true to her live performance and how keen you are to help her out...

You could just kinda detach yourself from it and just go through the motions and get it done fast. Would = less stress and less disappointment from having ideas constantly rejected etc. While still helping her out and throwing the occasional idea in the mix…

But it sounds like she’s kinda firm on not wanting the kind of stuff you’re interested in adding. And you said you’re not really in to her new material… Doesn’t bode great in terms of collaboration :wink: So maybe just take the easy road, do it how she wants, help her out, get paid a little and move on :wink:

Mate, thankyou for your input. That’s really helpful to hear. The only thing I think I didn’t mention is that she said she wants to get out of her comfort zone with this record (inspite of that seemingly being in conflict with her other wishes), so I think your suggested approach is about right :slight_smile:

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Artists tend to be stubborn, especially us solo signer songwriters. It’s hard to give up control on your creative creation, it’s your baby. One way to get ideas through is making your idea feel like theirs, works perfect on the wife. I agree with going through the motions and getting paid, also learning/watching how others work is so beneficial. If it were me then I’d have a conversation before anything started on what you both expect and curb any expectation you feel is not attainable.

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agree on some boundaries.

if she approached you (if i got this right), find out what her reasons were. if it was purely on cost, and if you can afford to, drop the gig. if not, discuss what she’s about, what you think she’s about, then what you’re about, and where the red lines are, and then sit down and do it in the most professional and detached way possible. it’s not your record. but it also will be.

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The problem is artists (singers in particular) think they know how a song should play out. Producers are there for a reason-they take an idea and shape it into something better. Case in point - Kelly Clarkson…Clive Davis let her write and co produce her own record after she had a hissy-fit in his office. Guess what? Her record tanked. Her first album sold 11,000,000 copies. The next (the one she wanted done her way) barely made a million sales-and that was only because of her fan-base established from the first album. She learned her lesson and never questioned the producer again.

Another example is the Human League’s ‘Don’t You Want Me’. The original version of that song sounded nothing like the released commercial version. A producer re-did the entire song brought to him and the band hated it-until it went number one and established their careers.

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alternative solution maybe: https://www.fiverr.com/search/gigs?utf8=✓&source=top-bar&locale=en&search_in=category&query=music+production takes you out of the loop amd seems to have cheap options available (note I said cheap, not good or good value)

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i have produced a lot of records for various artists of various styles


the role of a producer is to bring their taste to a record – to help an artist achieve a sonic goal they are not able on their own

ie, the black keys wanted a hiphop sound so they brought in dangermouse

the secondary role of a producer in a smaller context, is to bring the gear. mics, daws, knowledge of how to get a record down and how to mix it.

from an artists view, they have to find someone who’s “sound” they like – someone they can learn ideas from, someone who can push them with these ideas to create new work.

sounds to me like she doesnt want a producer, she wants a recording engineer and is not really being honest about it.

who still wants to hire someone after they say “i have a completely idea for the direction of this record?” answer: someone without the money to do otherwise.

i’d pass. i’ve made the mistake before of trying to push an artist in a direction they dont want to go. its not fun.

peace
9

Sounds like top advice from @PeterRabbit.
By the way @ludicrouSpeed -You Rock!!
I’d say play it from your heart,put your stamp on it. Only way to improve it proper. Maybe work on one track only and then see if she’s happy.

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Hey @ludicrouSpeed , I can probably help comment from the Australian side of things.


From the marketing aspect: Here we still have a decent market for acoustic-y female material but, only if it fits in with a niche that appeals to JJJ. If she is doing “traditional” singer/songwriter-y stuff then unless she has a voice/charisma/prowess like Adele/Sia I would run the opposite direction. JJJ (our biggest youth broadcaster, for those unfamiliar with what I’m talking about) cops a bad rap, but they have a massive appetite for interesting music, particularly through the Unearthed platform. Female stuff is massively in vogue right now - see Amy Shark, Tash Sultana, Camp Cope, Gretta Ray, Alex Lahey, Julia Jacklin, LANKS, etc etc. There’s a stack, and finally getting some decent airplay/attention which is awesome to see.

From the producer POV: as @PeterRabbit and @Callofthevoid have pointed out, it sounds like she does not want a producer, she wants an engineer. I’ve done a few of these projects and ended up being able to put a little bit of a stamp on stuff, but in the end the band had the final say and lo and behold: material was not successful.

Overall: you can go with it as a challenge, but it sounds like a challenge you do not have either the time, energy, or mental capacity for. My thoughts with this kind of thing is to weigh up the potential gains (in skills learned, development made, etc) vs the loss (loss of inspiration due to being depressed/angry/anxious about the process, time sucked into arguing back/forth, material not being in the shape you want it to be and not making a market impact, etc)
Note: I’ve italicised the sentence above which I think is the most important IMO.
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I get the impression you really don’t want to do it. Based on that, I’d recommend you don’t do it.

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I just think you need to be totally honest with her. Don’t feel embarrassed or nervous to talk about the issues you mentioned here.

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Definitely agree…

I just think you need to be totally honest with her. Don’t feel embarrassed or nervous to talk about the issues you mentioned here.

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In addition to all the great comments above, this would be my take: I’ve been a Producer for many years now and have taken on all sorts of projects/genres. And, of course, as you might expect there were quite a few where I didn’t particularly like the music, so that doesn’t have to be a big deal. There are some genres/musicians I prefer to work with though if I want to I can work within a genre I’m not so keen on. I’d say you have some options here. As already said, have a sit down with her and be honest with her and with yourself. Do you want to do it for the money? That’s one question. If so, you could agree a way forward with her and then go through with that. This is looking at it more along the lines of "if she’s happy with the result then that’s fine by me and she’ll tell others about me and I’ll get more work’. If the money doesn’t really matter to you and ending up with something that satisfies you creatively is your overriding concern, then go with your gut and don’t do it if you really feel it’s going to be too frustrating/anxiety-causing. Another idea: you could, of course, go with the first option, ending up with something you’ve done for the money and then take it away and remix it to your heart’s content for your own pleasure. Good luck with whatever you decide (and don’t worry - I’m sure whatever you decide will be fine!)

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Hey my dudes,


I just want to first of all say a MASSIVE thankyou to each and everyone who commented here…

I really appreciate every bit of feedback.

I don’t think I made it clear that I already aired my thoughts with her about how my stylistic / tonal inclinations at present are not so acoustic, and that I thought her previous record sounded very good for the style, and even that I didn’t think that I would be likely to do a better job at that style… I even suggested that she might be better off going with the same producer as her previous record… At the end of that convo, I said she should have a think about what I’ve said, and she remained keen… So at the end of the day, I want as much as possible to facilitate her making the best record possible, whether or not I’m involved…

One more clarification: she didn’t ask me to do it for the low rate. That was my suggestion, having been told her bank-roll for the full record, and considering that I didn’t want to eat into the remaining cost for mixing / mastering / artwork / duplication. I suggested a fee which was a balance the time required vs leaving enough for her to do the remaining tasks well… Also, as alluded to above, I’m not mixing it, that’s being out-sourced, at my suggestion due to time, and my specific skill-set: ie. I can mix, but I’ve done a lot more production than mixing.

I had a chat with the wife the other day, and I was able to figure out that if I put together a plan of how much time I would put into the process, so it didn’t feel like some potentially HUGE process, I could feel justified in committing to that, and no more…

So today I put forward my plan: 1 session of pre-production per week for the next 4 weeks, and then two x 3 day sessions in a proper studio to track… I’ll do a bit of editing / comping / mixing as we go, and then I’ll be off on my next ship contract… I can still be involved remotely, but it will be handed on to the mixing engineer at that point :slight_smile: I’m a sound guy myself, so I am qualified to just do the engineering stuff… I’m not being paid a tonne, but it’s something, and it should be a good experience… Once I conceived of the time limitations, I felt a lot better about the whole thing…

Thanks heaps again, everyone <3


One way to get ideas through is making your idea feel like theirs, works perfect on the wife.

I love this!

Case in point - Kelly Clarkson… Human League

I didn’t know that! It affirms my beliefs about the crucial role of the producer


Maybe work on one track only and then see if she’s happy.

Good suggestion! I thought about that, but there’s not enough time really… PS. I might be back in Liverpool this year!


My thoughts with this kind of thing is to weigh up the potential gains (in skills learned, development made, etc) vs the loss (loss of inspiration due to being depressed/angry/anxious about the process, time sucked into arguing back/forth, material not being in the shape you want it to be and not making a market impact, etc)

Thanks man! Sage advice. I’m not so worried about the commercial impact… I was mostly interested in it because she mentioned it, but if she wants to be “true to herself” creatively, then I’m not trying to do both! It’ll be like a tug of war between our left and right hands :stuck_out_tongue: I’m just going to have as much fun as I can, put a bit of my own style here and there, and get it done.



Another idea: you could, of course, go with the first option, ending up with something you’ve done for the money and then take it away and remix it to your heart’s content for your own pleasure.

This ^

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Little update…


Day 6 (final day) of pro studio time today… After 5 days of pre production last month…

As I advised, 5 songs was too much to do a full production of, at her skill level, but it’s been pretty fun (pretty stressful), glad to be tapping out after today (as I made clear that I would)…

Thanks again for all the advice & input.

<3
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Thanks for the update and glad it went ok :slight_smile:

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Listen to first 2 Masha Qrella albums; “Luck” and “Unsloved Remained”. You’ll get inspired. Judicious, minimal bleeps can really make acoustic stuff interesting.

https://youtu.be/LrNti5mVCB4

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Listen to first 2 Masha Qrella albums; “Luck” and “Unsloved Remained”. You’ll get inspired. Judicious, minimal bleeps can really make acoustic stuff interesting.

https://youtu.be/LrNti5mVCB4

Sounds good, I really like the minimal pulled back beatm… I’m doing what I can to put in some electronic elements to this record so far synth bass has made it into one track :stuck_out_tongue:

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Probably sounds too obvious but if you haven’t listened, the latest Bon Iver album has lots of ‘destroyed’ and messed-up sounds and samples while still sounding folk-ish. Heavy use of OP-1 on that album.

Also in that realm is Jonsi, Patrick Wolf (‘The Magic Position’, ‘The Bachelor’ and ‘Wind in the Wires’) and Sufjan Stevens (almost everything post-‘The Age of Adz’) . Folk music made by non-boring people :slight_smile: