Why I think new users should purchase the OP-Z before spending that much on the OP-XY

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In my opinion, if you’re considering the OP-XY, I strongly recommend starting with the OP-Z instead. While the OP-XY may seem appealing, much of its functionality already exists on the OP-Z, and the cost difference is significant. The OP-XY does offer upgrades such as increased project storage, multi-sampling, the ability to change samples per 24 notes, support for more projects, a four-bar sequencer, swing adjustment per track, more filter control, and other small improvements. However, one major disappointment is the limitation of only nine patterns per track.

While the OP-Z offers 16 different patterns, each with unique sounds and sequences, the OP-XY limits you to nine patterns per track unless you use another track or start a new project. Even when switching to a different scene or song within a project, the patterns remain unchanged. From what I can tell, scenes are used for rearranging patterns, and songs are for chaining scenes. Another aspect I found particularly disappointing is that the time signature only affects the metronome and seems pointless, as anything you record won’t align with the sequence.

Similarities Between the OP-Z and OP-XY:

   1.   Audio interfaces and Bluetooth midi: both can use Bluetooth midi and can be used as an audio interface. 

    2.   Gyroscope: Both devices support motion-based controls for creative performance options.

3.	Punch-In Effects: The OP-Z already includes punch-in effects, which work just as effectively for dynamic, live remixing.

4.	Step Components: Both devices feature step components, offering the same sequencing flexibility.

5.	Randomize Parameters: Both allow you to randomize parameters on tracks for added creativity.

6.	Shared FX Tracks: Both devices have two shared FX tracks.

7.	“Brain” and Tape Tracks: The OP-Z’s “Master” track is similar to the OP-XY’s “Brain,” and the tape track is mostly the same with slight improvements.

8.	Tracks: Both devices have eight sound tracks. However, on the OP-XY, you can customize how many drum or instrument tracks you want out of the eight, instead of being restricted to four drum and four instrument tracks like on the OP-Z.

9.	Sequencing Capabilities: Both devices allow for step-based sequencing with flexible customization.  However the XY has more steps.

10.	Compact Size: Both are highly portable and designed for on-the-go music production.

11.	MIDI Functionality: Both support extensive MIDI control for use with other gear.

12.	Track Effects: Both devices include track-specific effects for added sound design options.

13.	USB-C Connectivity: Both use USB-C for power and data transfer, making them modern and versatile.

Why I Think the OP-Z Is a Better Starting Point:

The OP-XY’s improvements, such as increased storage, multi-sampling, workflow tweaks, support for more projects, and a four-bar sequencer, don’t justify its significantly higher price. Additionally, some features available on the OP-Z have been removed from the OP-XY, including:

    - unable to record punch-in effects for single instrument.

    - DMX Lighting Controls: Useful for integrating visual performance elements.

    - Unity Video FX: A unique feature for video manipulation.
    
   - Unable to delete a parameter lock on a single step.

   - Unable to erase all step components at once.

   - Tempo Feedback: Lacks support for different tempo sounds and does not provide vibration feedback like the OP-Z does with the rumble module.
    
   - ARP Parameter Recording: Can’t record parameter motion or use parameter locks on the arpeggiator.

   - Tempo Adjustment: Does not allow you to use the number pad to input tempo values.

   - Step Movement: Cannot shift all steps left or right on the sequencer.

   - Manual Note Input: Cannot manually add notes more than two octaves apart on the sequencer without recording them live.
   
  - More than double the size: The OP-Z is compact enough to fit in your pocket, while the OP-XY is more than twice the size, with encoders that stick out and feel cheaply made.
  
  - Can’t mute FX in mixer: On the OP-Z, clicking Shift in the mixer track and muting FX would actually turn off the FX, but this doesn’t work on the OP-XY.

  - Can’t save presets on FX tracks.

These omissions make the OP-XY feel like a step backward in some areas.
Before investing in something as expensive as the OP-XY, I strongly recommend trying the OP-Z first. It offers nearly all the same functionality, with more unique patterns per project, at a much lower price. Additionally, the OP-Z can connect to your phone for screen functionality, reducing the need for the OP-XY’s built-in screen. For its price and feature set, the OP-Z remains the better starting point and overall value.

I hope to see some meaningful updates that might change my mind, but for now, coming from someone who owns both, I think anyone who hasn’t used an OP-Z should try it first.

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I totally agree with you that the OP-Z is still an excellent device and is great value for money, and, as the workflow is very similar, it’s a better place to start. However, there are a couple of points in your post that are not quite right.

The OP-XY can have up to 4 bars each with 16 steps per pattern, while the OP-Z only has 1 bar of 16 steps. Both of them have similar bar length options where you can make the bar last up to 16 times longer, so you can get much longer patterns on the OP-XY. If you work it out, the OP-Z has 256 sequencable steps (16x16) per pattern, while the OP-XY has 576 (4x16x9) sequencable steps.

This isn’t a totally fair comparison. On the OP-Z, each pattern has one bar per track, which is fixed, whereas the OP-XY has 9 independent patterns per track. For example, if you’re on pattern 1 for the OP-Z, track 1 is on pattern 1, track 2 is on pattern 1, track 3 is on pattern 1 etc. On the OP-XY, you can have track 1 on pattern 8, track 2 on pattern 3, track 3 on pattern 7 etc; so there’s a lot more flexibility there.

That said, I do think that there should be more patterns per track and I don’t see any technical reason why there couldn’t be.

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I’m also in the grumpy old guys camp who hold on to their OG-1 and much more so to their trusty banana-shaped friend. I feel like the OP-XY is actually everything that the community asked for (incl. me) in a OP-Z successor (minus the price). This is probably the first time TE listened to their customers. This is cool, but at the same time I would have expected a more groundbreaking & visionary device from a company like TE, instead of just improving on tried-and-true concepts. On that note, the Z still stands on its own with DMX & Videolab/Unity possibilities. Also the fact that none of TE’s devices are usable in the dark without additional lighting drives me nuts (Hello, Ableton Move). At least for the OP-Z they had the vision for glow-in-the dark icons (which would have been so cool had it worked properly and stayed in the final product release).

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I didn’t realize this before—I thought that when recording live, both devices would still have the same maximum number of steps, with the OP-XY simply allowing you to edit up to 64 steps instead of 16. That said, the price jump from the OP-Z to the OP-XY is massive, especially compared to the more modest jump from the OP-1 to the OP-1 Field. Honestly, the OP-Z already includes so many of the features the OP-XY offers.

I’ll admit, I’m one of the rare users who actually made use of the DMX and Unity Video Lab features on the OP-Z, so I was disappointed to see those removed from the OP-XY. I completely understand why—they weren’t widely used—but it’s still a letdown for anyone who appreciated those unique capabilities.

For anyone considering the OP-XY, I’d strongly recommend giving the OP-Z a try first, if you haven’t already. It’s significantly more affordable, smaller, and still incredibly powerful. You might find it does everything you’re looking for, without requiring such a substantial investment.

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You can’t compare 16 pattens per project to 9 patterns per track. It’s totally different and I would argue the later is much more powerful. If you are going to buy the OP-XZ and try to use it the exact way as the OP-Z I guess you’re going to be disappointed.

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I think a better comparison is ‘patterns’ of the op-z with ‘scenes’ of the xy - collections of a sequence per track

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a key thing that talked me out of it is speed - op-z workflow is faster and simpler.

good comparisons in:

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i love love love the op-z and although im sure ill get an op-xy at some point, currently even the op-z is way more powerful than I’ll ever use, so the idea of getting an xy is just so overkill for me. i imagine there are others out there in a similar situation. getting the right tool for the job is important sometimes in facilitating productive creativity. too much and too little are both inhibitors i their own way.

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i bought an OPZ + line module specifically to relieve the GAS the OPXY was triggering. After a few weeks of immersing myself in OPZ i realized i definitely wanted an OPXY hahah :skull:

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that’s super valid. in general ive found that when intuitively you know you want something but you try to satisfy it with something else, it somehow never works out lol (for me anyway).

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Honestly, it might be a while before I spend more time with my OP-Z. I might use it as a mic with built-in FX and LFOs, but my OP-XY has replaced my OP-Z across the board.

OP-XY is way harder to use than OP-Z and I still don’t understand arranger mode. But between project names, more sample space, and the ability to swap out individual samples on a key in drum/multisampler mode… it’s a whole different experience.

My OP-Z covers always felt like I was pushing the device to its limits just to get a “kinda close” sound to the original. Between my cover of “Intro” by The XX and a cover I’m currently working on, OP-XY covers feel a lot more like I’m actually making a full-on cover instead of a novelty challenge.

EDIT: just remembered which thread I’m in. I’m just agreeing that OP-Z is perfect for some, OP-XY is perfect for others, but it’s hard to figure out which is right for you until you try one.

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totally. fully agree. i have yet to try an xy but i look forward to the day.

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That’s been 100% true for me as well. I’ve spent too much money on “this ought to do” gear that I always end up selling at a loss. I’ve learned to save up and spend once.

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It’s a nice tool, and even though I should be using it more, I tend to take my OP-Z with me simply because it fits in my pocket, and I don’t stay in one spot for too long. I think most people considering this device who haven’t tried the OP-Z should give it a try first.

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You can rearrange patterns and use them across different scenes and songs within a project, but each track is limited to a maximum of nine unique patterns. Once you’ve created nine patterns, you can’t add more, even if you switch to a different scene or song—at least based on my experience. The OP-Z allows for 16 different patterns, each can have a unique sounds and sequences. However, unless I’m missing something, switching scenes or songs doesn’t provide new patterns; the existing ones remain the same. While I can rearrange patterns as much as I want, I can’t create more than nine unique ones per track.

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You can’t compare them. Scenes and songs only allow for nine patterns per track. Once I have nine patterns on a track, I can’t add more, even if I switch to a different scene or even a different song—at least based on what I’ve observed so far. On the OP-Z, you can have 16 different patterns with unique sounds for each track, but you can’t rearrange them the way scenes let you. Scenes allow you to rearrange patterns, and songs let you chain scenes together, but neither scenes nor songs provide a new set of nine patterns. You’re limited to only nine patterns per track unless you start a new project.

Trust me, I’ve maxed out a couple of my tracks and tried to figure out a way to get more patterns, but I can’t unless I use a different track. I really hope a future update adds 16 patterns or even 99 like the K.O.II Though on the K.O.II the patterns share the same sound, which can’t be changed without affecting all patterns’ sounds, you can still create up to 99 different patterns and scenes. I’m not sure why they settled on 9 for the XY.

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Yeah you’re right. The concept of pattern is much clearer to me in the op-z. I can’t see why they limit patterns to 9 per track either. And I actually think the extra layer of ‘songs’ within a project (as collection of scenes in a specific order) is a bit of an extra complication too.

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There are 8 tracks with 9 patterns each. The possibilities are a lot more than only having 16 patterns in total. You need to think about it in a different way though. If you are going to try and use it like the OP-Z then you aren’t going to like it. Scenes are so much more powerful than mute groups. It’s kind of like being able to sequence mute groups with a song mode but even more powerful than that as you can also select which of the 9 patterns within each track is active.

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Seriously? The OP-Z does not have only 16 patterns in total across all tracks. I’m guessing you don’t own an OP-Z because each track has 16 patterns. Sure, they only have one bar instead of four like the OP-XY, but the OP-Z has 16 patterns per track, while the OP-XY has 9. I don’t understand why people are arguing with me about this—I’m just stating the facts based on what both devices offer. I own both, and I can’t use more than 9 patterns on the OP-XY as of now, unlike the 16 patterns available per track on the OP-Z. You just can’t rearrange them using scenes.

Another thing: scenes are not patterns! Scenes are different arrangements of those 9 patterns on the OP-XY. If you want to add a new sequence of notes but have already used all 9 patterns, you’re out of luck—you can’t use scenes to magically create new patterns without moving to a new track. That’s what I’m trying to say—it’s the truth. Check the manuals if you don’t believe me, or get an OP-Z and see for yourself.

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I have an op-z. It has 16 patterns per project. Not 16 patterns per track. A pattern on the op-z spans across all tracks. They are totally different and I’m not sure how you don’t get that the op-xy is more powerful.

The op-xy actually has 72 possible combinations of patterns and tracks (9 * 8). That’s a lot more than 16. Scenes are amazing. I don’t think you understand how this works.

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