Bouncing

OP-1 Tricks and Tips
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1

Hey guys, I have a problem.


I have a drum loop on two tracks. One panned slight left and the other is slight right. They are in the sweetest spot sonically. When I try to bounce them down by lift dropping them in the drum sampler, everything seems to get squished to the center. Is there a way to circumvent this? Also do you take any precautions to maintain the volume of your samples?


Thanks,

SB
2

Everything on the OP-1, except the master mix and master effects, is mono. So when you lift something into the sampler (or onto another tape track or wherever), it will be converted to mono.

3
@yrn001

Mmk. My understanding is that this can be trumped by bouncing to album. Is there anything you do to sample from album precisely?
4

To sample from album, you just set the sampler source to ear I believe. You go to album and press play (T2 I think), then record to the tape or directly in the drums or sampler synth.

5

But of course, when you sample from the Album, you will get a mono version because the Sample engine is mono. Maybe try and get your drums to sit together better using EQ?

6

Right, OP-1 works in mono, like @yrn001 said. You have two choices :

- working with your drum loops either like two separate drums sampler
- merge them in one solo track

I don’t see another way to do this. OP-1 doesn’t like stereo, which is a limitation that I’ve found very annoying quite a few times I must admit.
7

What I’ve done is multi a drum break. I made three copies and tweaked each one by lifting them into sampler and EQing with nitro (one for highs, one for lows, one for slam compression). I sampled each back to tape on separate tracks and mixed with the mixer.


Then I lifted the three EQ’d bits into sampler and resampled that to tape creating a dry channel on T1 and a bus group on T2. I remixed this and then lifted it into the drum sampler again and had one big nice drum loop.

Now I find that it sounds fine as one track panned to center but It’s so much wider when I double and pan. So I’m stuck having two drum tracks instead of one. Any way around this without going outside the OP-1?

Is sampling directly to tape always mono no matter what source (Ear, Line In)?

But of course, when you sample from the Album, you will get a mono version because the Sample engine is mono. Maybe try and get your drums to sit together better using EQ?


Do you mean use the master EQ on the OP-1?
8

Okay two tracks it is! Thank you!

9

My understanding is:

Tape sends 4 tracks, each in mono, each with no panning info, to Mixer
Mixer bounces 4 tracks, each in mono, each with its own panning info, to an Album side
Album sends a side, in stereo, to Output

Therefore if you need to preserve the panning of your current 2 drums rhythms, they cannot ever coexist on the same track of the tape.

Step in and correct me if I'm wrong folks, as I've only just started out on the OP-1.

CB
10

@cloudburst you’re right. Mixer sends to Output too, Album is an option.


11

@lyingdalia Ah okay - of course.


So am I right in saying that since the Mixer output is in stereo, with master effects, that there is no “sonic” value-add by the Album mode and it’s just a convenient storage area for stereo tracks you’ve created, and to keep space free on the tape for other work?

CB
12

With album is there anyway to precisely record back in or is it all timing?

13

Yep it is confirmed. Album saves the stereo quality. Even if it isn’t stereo the sound is the same!


Thanks for the knowledge!

SB
14

@cloudburst Album is also a way to get a single stereo track, clean and done, in which you can also immortalize all kinds of interventions (drums/synth/sampling/master effects) while playing/tweaking the tape… Of course you can do this with a DAW using the stereo output of the OP-1.

But it’s good to be able to do that within this little toy, when you’re outside/away from a computer

I don’t see it as a convenient storage, more like a way to get a final result that I would consider as my track, and move to something else.
This helps me get something done, and I miss this simple function in many hardware where I tend to stay at the performing stage…
:slight_smile:

15

Yep. Gotcha @LyingDalai. That makes perfect sense.


CB
16

if you use the sequencers to add drum parts bit by bit on two tracks, you can emulate a real mic’d drum kit by utilizing the master panning (hard L on T1, and hard R on T2, for example)…and then use the orange knob when recording to control the volume.


typically you want your main snares and kicks down the center, so record both L and R at your “loudest” setting on both tracks. use hold REC and key-in to initiate the sequence, so it’s in perfect sync on both Tracks. just record both L & R sides.

for a HH, you can turn the volume down to 30% on the R side and maintain 100% volume on L. for Toms, Crashes etc turn it up as you get further R in your virtual kit, and down a bit on the left, of course to taste…but helps to think about how you’d want your kit set up if it were “real” and adhere to it.

it takes a bit of time with this method, but results can be quite “realistic” in terms of sounding like a mic’d studio drum kit. and once it becomes part of your workflow, you just start to remember where you like to place your drums in the mix. it takes a bit of commitment, for certain.

if you are confident in playing on the keys, remove the crutch of playing each side with a Sequencer, and just finger drum your notes in…sometimes playing the tiniest bit out of sync L& R can add additional depth to the drums, really only if they are spread L & R…so fingering in your Endless drums, or just adding in flares or fills here or there can be nice, but takes some practice, for those not used to finger drumming or keys. (or multiple takes)>

until of course, you get too lazy or tipsy to do any of this, and just resort to fiddling with the panning while recording your master mix to the album, which can also end up sounding dynamic and a bit fuller. which could also potentially be a method if you end up not wanting to give up 2 tracks for your drums in the first place.

maybe this makes sense to someone, or helps in some way imaginable.

and, of course, you can use this method in any DAW not just OP-1, BTW.
17

Awesome thanks @kln ,I love that little insight to your process.I’m aware of the old Panning Tips thread,but this makes it clearer how you get your nice drum mixes.I had guessed at you paying attention to Orange in Tape mode.I may have a go at this.Good stuff :slight_smile:
(Now i must sort out that SoundCloud account ,so to enter something,anything into a battle…)

18

@kln this is awesome.


First I didn’t know that you could record on both tracks, this is something great. I wonder if you can keep the stereo of the audio input this way.

But this spatialization of the drums is something totally new to me.
I mean : so far I was just playing with the panning to give some depth to certain aspects of drums, give some focus on the main components, separate the kick drum from the bass synth for instance…
But the whole idea of trying to get closer to the sound of drums the way a drummer would hear it… Somehow it makes totally sense…
Your technique is beautiful, a whole area got opened at once, thank you very much !!
I will never listen nor craft to a track the same way, this is for sure.

First thing I’ll do back home is to set some “default” panning levels on the Analog Rytm.
For a few days now, I’ve been really pissed of with the mono-recording aspect of my tracks, wondering how to change this in a way that would make sense… I don’t know why, for me, it had to be dynamic, and I tried quite a few tricks both with evolving panning and spatializing effects without being fully satisfied…
Your static yet logic drums setting is a revelation. I can’t say thank you enough !! (+ can’t wait to try this)
:smiley:

19

@Spheric_El - i do pay close attention to the Orange encoder in Tape mode. even if you aren’t using the spatial plotting technique i tried to describe, even fluctuating up and down in small increments as you play a sequence or key in sounds can add some dynamic feeling to the recording. in a DAW with MIDI you can quite easily change velocity, but it is much more manual on the OP-1. the Orange encoder is the ticket. once you get the hang of it, and find which sounds it makes sense to flux in your mix and how to vary them over time, it can produce some subtle change through your recording and enhance the overall composition. you can also enhance the “rise” or “fall” of synth sound by playing with Orange while recording.


@LyingDalai - recording on both tracks using the same sequence is most effective when panned hard L & R on those two track on the OP-1. not being familiar with AR, i don’t know how the panning and tracks work, but theoretically you can pan any drum sound as if you were sitting at a drum kit and hearing it from the drummer’s perspective and pan the sound to that space. i believe many producers use this method even when mic’ing individual live drums in a kit, when doing multi tracking thru mixing boards. and place the pan for each track in the L and R, based on the drummer’s seated position (looking at it from overhead).

i took this concept after reading about it online and simply applied it to a two-track limitation, and use the volume Orange encoder to emulate the panning function you would find on a studio mixer. leaving only two other tracks for additional content (which is fine, since one can be dedicated bass and the other melodies, etc).

i hope you can apply it, and find it useful. on OP-1, it does require to pay a bit more attention and sometimes remember where you put a sound, if you bring it back later in a song after working on other parts. for me, i stick to one location in the mix as much as possible for each kind of sound, to make it easy to remember. like always 100% L / 30% R for HH, and always 50% L / 90% R for the Low Tom, as if it were just to the right of my knee. (and then varying this based on how loud the original sample is too). basically having my virtual set-up remain in the same position for every song (in which i decide to dedicate two tracks for drums).


20

@kln


Also what levels should you set the mixer, EQ, etc. at to maintain the volume of what you’re bouncing to album? Every time I bounce drums or what have you to album it comes back wayyyy quieter.