What's up with Teenage Engineering ? 🤔

Turned out to be a fruitful thread and honored to make your acquaintance Tao; have a wonderful evening everyone :slight_smile:

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Long post sorry -

Just a bit of advice for UK based users of TE gear, and any other items of ANY kind.

First, I’ve had nothing but good experiences with TE gear. Never had any issues whatsoever with my OP-Z, OP1 OG (now sold), OP1 Field, KO2 and most of the pocket operators, so I can’t comment on the issues some have had. However, all of my purchases have been from Amazon UK, and other UK based shops. And here’s what anyone in the UK needs to know.

The 2015 consumer rights act. Basically any product you buy, as long as it’s from a UK based supplier, is covered by this act. Forget one years warranty, a product has to meet the following 3 criteria. 1 - be fit for purpose, 2 - be of reasonable quality, and 3 - last for a reasonable amount of time.

As long as the shop - and not the manufacturer- is based in the UK, you are covered by this act, and your contract is with the supplier (ie the shop) and not the manufacturer.

My advice is to always buy from a uk based shop/supplier and you will be covered. Even better, pay the bill (or at least £100) on your credit card and the credit card company is also liable to help if you have any problems - up to 6 years after you buy the item. Of course you should pay off your credit card bill in full. You will still be covered by them.

Obviously mis-use of the item or normal wear and tear isn’t covered, but manufacturing defects etc are. This is beyond any 1 year warranty.

Sorry for the long post, and this isn’t a reflection on TE. My advice is to always buy from a UK based supplier and then you would be covered by this act. Buy direct from TE and you are NOT covered as they are not based in the UK. Remember your contract is with the supplier and not the manufacturer.

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That’s pretty cool! I wish they had similar protections in place for North American buyers.

My experience has been pretty good but I’d have probably sprung for a TP7 by now if i weren’t a bit worried about QC issues. Over the years I’ve bought OP1 twice, OPZ, KO2, TX6, M1 headphones, plus all three Z modules (oplab, rumble & line). Some were purchased from reverb/ebay, some direct from TE, others from 3rd party vendors. None has broken or has problems i’ve read about from less fortunate users

I was kinda worried about my KO2 but B&H were pretty helpful after fadergate affected early adopters. If I’d had malfunctioning or damaged unit they were gonna help swap out for another one

Didn’t one of the TE members hint at a Z 2 in a video at some point?

And I agree; the opZ is (to me) by far TE most interesting platform. I was ecstatic when it was in development, didn’t buy on release due to price and no physical MIDI outs, took a pass when the MIDI out module came out due to price! …

Now being more mature I realize one is paying for convince, design/ UI flow and the work it took to code rather than physical parts.

Today Im always traveling and weight and size are of great importance and the Z keeps coming up as the best option, but Im willing to sacrifice on weight/size factor and thus Im waiting on Polyends Play next update. If Polyend delivers a solid/stage ready OS with sample chopping and direct synth editing and synth FX performance it becomes very capable of full on productions (as are the trackers) . In many ways its similar to the Z in regards to specs.

That being said Im very much into spiraling poly metrics, especially modulation. I absolutely adore my Spectralis/ modular hybrid groovebox) but its 9 effin kilos, runs unfinished OS and only two global delays… but man the melodies that you can get from crossing pitch lines via phase/FM and other modulations is just another level of groove/sound synthesis. And the fidelity is just ACE’s

And that is my biggest reason/ well relative to hardware defects problems / on why I can’t commit to investing in a Z right now and why I feel like TE needs apply greatness to the synth engines and on QC on a future Z. And why I can’t overlook the Play+ as a better choice.

The Play + synths are deep enough and have enough variance ( subtractive VA, FM, Drum and upcoming Phase modulation engines) to last. And it all sound serious with a distinctive character. Although one could argue that a good preamp on the main outs would be of sonic aid. The safe is: it can bounce everything digitally.

Meanwhile the Z sounds somewhere between punchy vibe to toy ish /yet with a distinctive character with Ok FX. but too often it sounds feels limited in dynamics and by today s standard sounds a bit limited.

I would love for TE to be able to apply VCAs VCFs (as standard/ or in module expansion (given that aux outs with cv and MIDI outs are standard, multiple nodule expansions would be welcome. Specially in a resampling architecture whereas analog saturation can be applicable via velocity / its why my Microwave 1\ Waldorf M can sound so magical.

I have such a long list of wishes of features even UI sketches of dream grooveboxe’s … I don’t even understand why no company has brought a proper solution to a all in one production / live instrument when I can easily fruit spectacular design /feature rations on paper in two hours including shift function and price point relative’s.

Another reason to hold ones breath is that Novation is expected to bring out Circuit Pro’s, Pioneer to bring out a SP16 merged with Squid sequencing, Roland is getting close with MC MW SH’s range, NI Machine+ update is around the corner and Korg has finally got great fidelity sampling (Drumlog) and has all the synth and hardware tech to complete a brilliant sampling workstation.

IMO they have all realize that there’s a very strong market in portable performance instrument that can record and resynthesize. Self powered and light with the ability to control visuals / VJ … OPZ was the pioneer, Yamaha is on the trail and I believe others are about to follow. In the past it was about big heavy durable pro /road ready instruments. Now the standard is more about being able to fit the live rig in the overhead bin on the airplane or in a back pack. Just like heavy vinyl bags got replaced with usb sticks.

Apologies for the rant … blame it on the fact that I don’t have a portable workstation in my backpack Right now :sparkles::kissing_heart:

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I dig your passion and your search for the holy grail. I mean did you consider the op1field? I think it’s the ultimate all in one! Combined with the op-z you don’t need anything else to me….just in case you wondered it’s worth the price.

Sounds like B&H are a great shop. Excellent customer service. I was worried about putting the fader on my KO2, and it’s definitely a tight fit, but I went gently and luckily it was ok.

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Great combo … no doubt, OP1F is a beautiful piece of kit, would love to try that platform, in a positive view it seams quite unlimited and yes the Z would add brilliant sequencing options.

Now TBH Im thinking of investing in a iPad pro to run Drambo + controller , just discovered that thing and its absolutely massive … and the iPad will double up.as a tool for video and post productions…

I love hardware but the sound and flexibility of Drambo and now the 2.0 DAW like format makes it highly optimized for my way of composing,which includes allot of intermodulation both of sound and sequencing… it sound impressive and has some super cool modules… like there is one that is a looper with 8 layers and every layer has 3 play heads :loud_sound::wink::clap:

Sampling modules seams flexible, everything can be modulated, very nice lofi options (down to the roots, core playback/ rather than a decimated effect based … Super nice cross-fader, clip and p-locks … its very very nice 100+ modules … its massive actually …

Not that tons of features are really necessary it reminds me a bit of the Roland MC707 (it can be broken down to modular like performance via OSC key zones, cross modulations and two independent LFO like lines/designers … decent step sequencer (multiple modes playbacks) scatter can be highly customized,

In an environment like that 8 tracks very much enough to make brilliant performances … I just think Roland took a cheep route on the menu architecture, They could have mapped the entire engine out on the 16 steps via shift function like they did on the 1st and 2nd generation of MC grooveboxe’s :thinking:

That UI and the whole sample chopping and layer assignments are just too back to the 90s way of editing… I don’t know why Roland would do that but that is very off-putting for someone that’s passionate about UI/ and flow.

Anyways thank you for your welcomed interest and suggestions :v:Cheers :clinking_glasses:

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Oh if you’re into it, I totally love dRambo. That’s how I ended up here!!!

(And you can add more tracks , in the master section just click the plus sign)

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Cool!

While I have you on the line, I’ve been watching videos but I still haven’t found info on:

Is it possible to modulate OSC modules with other OSC modules … say; Pm or FM input ala complex oscillator?

Can animation lines be independent of recorded note sequences? Like un-uantized phase recording and or can their playback be altered (directions, resolutions) etc

Does it have any OPZ step components :sunglasses:?

How would you compare the creative experience vs the OPZ ?

:point_up:I know a weird question but I really hate using mouse and keyboard for music (always been HW). Touch screen is why I look at Drambo as viable, aswell as the sheer power wich is almost overwhelming (limits are often your best friend and Drambo /aswell as most DAWs seams to just underline that fact)

In comparison my Spectralis is a 4 OSC system x3 filters, with LFOs and step lines everywhere and its just creative bananas :partying_face::loud_sound::loud_sound:

Drambo is like a galaxy in comparison and I feel like feature often move you a way from focus, or composing music in this case. Also does it not feel like a downgrade in fidelity in many ways to come from something that sounds at top level down to the extremely limited OPZ? :thinking:

Can’t stand the name Drambo btw … sounds like Rambo’s delinquent half brother that stayed home and played video games and eat pizza instead of heroically battling villains and blowing things up like Rambo did😉

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In Drambo you can do almost anything you can possibly conceive of doing. You just need to know how to do it….im not very proficient in “Drambo code” but if you go on the forum, there are two dudes who are fluent in it….you can ask there and they will gladly and quickly assist.

There are all kinds of things sort of like step components you can do, automation to your imaginations content, and its all internal too

I dont know how well it can sequence stuff like modulation but its probably the most powerful hardware/software controller and sequencer (and its for macOS)

Its really the most amazing things I’ve seen, and its started me in electronic music and iPad production……its really a limitless mini DAW

If it had audio capture (more than the sampling) it would be a complete DAW of its own kind

Not to detract from TE, but with Drambo and an iPad, you dont need much else….i prefer using my op-z and op-1f but i know Drambo is stiff competition on the software end….really glad you found it on your own and its to your liking

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Thank you for the reply…

So Drambo has its own step components /FX :partying_face: Now I have to cheek it out …it actually came recommended in another forum, one of the guys is a beta tester so I will aim my questions at him… those buffer and CZ models have me pretty sold.

Yet I still considered the Z as an alternative as Free time to compose is luxurious essence at this point and I feel like Id have a complete groove with complexity finished on the Z by the time I’ve fired up a workstation and setup racks and tracks adjustments :sunglasses:

Im a bit puzzled by the , “no audio capture” comment, :face_with_raised_eyebrow:Drambo can resample itself and I think it “auto saves recording as a wav(?)” If I understood correctly it Kicks in automatically after a new recording…(?)

Thus you can always go back and it will display list of wav files with time/date stamp per session …

Id like to highlight this feature on in case someone in TE ever reads these post … as its captures those creative moments that often fall into the shadows

Its worth its weight in superstar DJ Gold :sparkles::sunglasses: … Only the SP404 ( which is always recording in the background (30sec buffer?) and The New MPCs which can always recall your finger drumming even if you never entered record mode (via shift+play) have.

dunno? some high end workstation might have this aswell. Motifs, K2661 Phantoma etc) I don’t follow the wedding singers fortay of instrument :kissing_heart:

Yet for us artists/samplist that play by feel rather than educated calculation, there are moments of creative sparks that we never recapture and often we end up chasing the ghost of a passed first unrecorded take

So yhea if TE takes anything from this thread its this Million dollar feature *recall played motifs and *inter modulations between OSC engines (like patching complex oscillators to cross modulate) this is amazing in a poly metric seq system whereas a 3rd sound is generated/re-synthesized every time OSCs from concerted engines meet on the grid :kissing_heart: … another dimension both in rhythmic and melodic ways … :sparkles::sunglasses:

A propper song mode and sequence scene locks per patter would elevate the pattern alternations (vs having to create and work in a new pattern every seq alternation) Insert FX per part, OP chips on expansion modules (they sound so authentic and punchy):sunglasses:, I could go on and on … but I don’t get paid for this and this already a long rant…

So to bring this back to topic, What’s up with TE? … Are we talking about the vibe of the FX engine on KO2? The slick design of the OP1? The punchy retro sound of the PO rhythm/ tonic engines?.The awesomeness of Speak? The cool factor of the F range? As in whomever brings a TE field recorder into an executive meeting wins the right to wear a StarTrek outfit to work everyday … or what…

What’s wrong with TE?..I mean is this a serious question?.. They are marvels in a industry filled with smart innovations and intellectual properties… they’re unique, brilliant and creative. :sparkling_heart:

That’s what’s :point_up: with TE :kissing_heart:

Ps I’d like to add … if there is one fundamental change I would consolidate to TE and what IMO is lacking in their design it would expression of touch … and I’d seriously recommend MPE engines (its the future) and MPE control as the sensory input. Or at the very least Velocity and after touch… Capturing the artistic expression of motion. …

All the best :v:

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The MPC Feature is retrospective record, and it does only work for midi… which is… alright… but I personally don’t use it that much because if you’re just noodling for 50 bars… when you paste it to the timeline you’ve got… 50 bars… that you now need to scrub through…

The SP404 mk2 feature is skip back, and there are two modes default was… 22’ish seconds I think, and a firmware update allowed for longer skip back that goes up to 40 seconds. Unfortunately you can only use skip back or the looper, but not both at the same time. Clearly they’re using the same free memory pool.

Putting the SP404 mk2 at the end of chain can be really handy, because I’d say in general, 40 seconds of “wait that sounded pretty cool” is usually enough time to go back to, and it is always recording.

I’m not sure what a TE version of this would look like, but it’d certainly be something I’d be keen to see on an OP-1 Field :smiley:

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May I ask you , since you’re really a master of the 404; how do you feel about the KO2? I don’t mean like a 1:1 comparison but what do you like about the KO2 or what differentiates it from other sampler style machines??? (If you care to offer your view ofc, whether here or less publicly)

I don’t have hands on experience with the KO2… though I did try to pre-order it on launch day, and hit all the order issues everybody else did. I ordered a second time when things settled down, but it took a while before shipment so I decided to cancel my order. This was around the fader issues and manufacturing issues started to be documented, though just playing it absolutely did (and does) look fun.

From what I have seen, the sequencer has a lot of good going for it, but the limited storage space and polyphony do both interest me and turn me off of it at the same time. If somebody put one in my hands I’d absolutely play with it, and I have no problems making tracks with the far more limited PO-33… so I certainly don’t have any ill will towards it.

Honestly what it has mostly come down to for me was that I have far too many samplers to count, and the MPC and SP404 mk2 cover so many bases by themselves. Plus I’m trying to figure out how to reduce my overall desk space, so have moved all my remaining euro rack, access virus, and Waldorf iridium to the basement (along with a lot of rack gear). Then I’ve got the OP-Z, and OP-1, SP202/303/404/404SX that are kicking around on shelves for when I want to grab them. Wrap this all up with the Dirtywave M8, Zeptocore (that just showed up and I’m playing with right now), and a Woovebox on the way. Seriously… too much gear… and I still haven’t gotten into the rack mountable stuff… Akai S950, Akai VX90, Akai S1000, Akai Z8, and 3 rack devices for driving microphones I use for recording… it’s all nice/fun to have… but also too much to keep in my head.

So right now I’ve got a currently reduced setup of the OP-1 Field, MPC, SP404 mk2, a selection of guitar pedals, the TX-6 and the TP-7. I could probably still lose the OP-1 Field and the guitar pedals, and still make the kinds of music I like to make.

All this is a long way to say I’ll still say that the KO2 does look fun, but I don’t think it’d get enough use given the gear pile it’d be competing with.

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my lil take on what differentiates the ep133 from other samplers is how it is designed to encourage live melody writing. ive used the digitakt, the polyend tracker, the m8, (all have since been sold) and i still have and use my sp404.

the scale mode on the ep133 combined with the 3x4 pad layout and numbering scheme push me into playing melodies rhythmically and im actually learning more about the relationships between intervals in a scale at the same time. i havent found this experience with any other sampler

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Heyja! great to have you here, hope you can resolve some thoughts on sampler fidelity given your’re surrounded by samplers :pray:

Could you be so kind to give some feedback on the line in sampling quality of the Z vs your sampler arsenal, I mean some can overload the input and its often quoted that old akais used top of the line conversion back in that day (the assumption is that it implies mojo /or quality to samples).

Are the TEs on par with the Best of them?

Also it be interesting to get your take in the Zeptocore :partying_face: that thing has almost reversed all my portable studio plans (basically replacing the PE Play+ idea) …

IMO its one of the few bits of kits where Id give a perfect score :sparkles: for what it is (that almost never happens) its just missing MIDI mapping l(He has already mapped it onto a QWERTY keyboard so keyboard mapping is coming :sunglasses:

I think I can cover alot of ground if the Z (or OP1F) have great sounding A/D conversion, using the Zeptocore and two POs as core sources of sound and creativity.

Sampling them extensively via line ins (btw is there a difference between the input module vs the standard I/O in quality?)

Theses are so portable I can almost fit the entire rig into my pockets, molding new grounds for the line: Hey are you just happy to see me or is that a complete live studio set-up in your pockets… :wink:

Also out of curiosity, does the OP1F internal resampling& bouncing to tapes not gradually decrease the audio? Say when you’re past x 10 times plus? … someone on mpc forum noted that this was audible in the MPC :thinking:

Thx! :clinking_glasses:

Would need to be a psychic to foresee that the software wasn’t going to be complete at launch already from the ID and UX stage. That’s not on the design and interface people.

It was blatantly obvious from the very beginning that Rabbit was making promises they never intended to keep. Moreover, the owner has a clear propensity for lying and he ran a cryptocurrency company (i.e. another scam) before gathering money for R1. Basic due diligence would have been enough to avoid partnering with people like this. It’s a professional obligation of any serious company to perform such due diligence checks.

Not sure if my thoughts on sampling/samplers will help you much… but here goes.

First, I’m usually not super big into fidelity these days. Yes, we can go beyond 32-bit 192khz… but for most general purposes it’s not necessary. I’m also not really a digital vs analog snob. I guess loosely I’ll just say that I appreciate the right tool for the job, and frequently the right tool for the job is whatever you happen to have in front of you.

Samplers from the 80’s through early 2k’s were by and large about either making a sampler less expensive for mass market appeal, or making it more accurate. There wasn’t really a rush for “that sound” because everyone was trying to perfectly recreate specific sounds. I’d say once we got around “CD Quality” (44.1khz, 16bit) that by and large sample processing was good enough for most people/purposes. Yes I know there are benefits to recording at higher rates, but it’s typically important when doing extreme time stretching, and mixing at higher rates is important for mixing and master. For me at least though, 44.1khz, 16bit recording is generally just fine. I’m also not a super purist anymore about keeping everything digital, and have come back around to liking the subtle imperfections, noise floor, and other issues that recording over an analog signal can introduce.

In general I’d say the OP-Z line in quality for me has been fine. The real problem is when you also have a USB connection hooked up, as you get the USB/ground noise, and this can be overwhelming to any recording. This one issue is the main reason I don’t use the OP-Z more, because I’d rather use it with other gear, but by itself, it is a fully competent instrument to make plenty of music with.

The original OP-1 was quite good, and I feel like the OP-1 Field is that much better. It probably is partially from the more modern cpu, better algorithms and such… but to me, if you can work in limited sample time it works great.

I’ve only had the Zeptocore for a few days, and have started to use the tool to build up a new kit. That said, I since the tool is only available as a web tool to setup the SD Card (as far as I can tell), I partially wonder if this was done as a way to scrape people’s sample libraries. The device itself sounds fine to me, but some of the samples seem a bit noisy. I’ll have to play around with it more to get a full judge of it. I also wish the Zeptocore had a TRS midi input for clocking/controlling, as clock sync is kind of meh to me… but I guess I’ll have to figure out how to use USB-C with a device to control it over midi…

You can cover a lot of ground with just the OP-Z and/or OP1F, and they mostly work pretty well together. If you keep your setup small it’ll force you to learn the devices more, and you’ll get way more out of them.

The OP-Z has TRRS input by default, and this is stereo output, and a microphone input. You can get a digdugdiy adaptor to covert the TRRS to stereo output and a mono line in input.

Resampling and sample degradation depends on a lot of factors… but most people I see talk about this topic for any device are doing pitch shifting, then resampling, which does introduce artifacts that will build up over time. Similarly, if the OP-1 Field has different tape simulations, and if you record to anything but the clean tape, then resample off of that, you will build up those changes over time.

Hope that helps, and keep jamming!

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Nice1! I admire: “work with what you have ideology” , one can always process in post but field recordings are always fundamental in quality then again perhaps Im being too seriously… Im doing cool techno and breaks not harps and vocals.:wink:

Mostly worried about loss of frequency’s reflecting in a thin or dull sound, if the recordings are clear and retain a solid signal, Im good…
If its on par with the 404 and the MPC then I’ll be super satisfied …Its just too easy to cast a
prejudice on 1"8 jack going into plastic gadgets vs heavyweight samplers.

On the topic of Z input USB noise. Is it then by default present in USB audio sampling? Is this a known Z defect?

Also has anyone done a comparison between KO2 sampling vs Z sampling🤔? The KO2 sounds very good to me, the lows have space (not flat) the mids are clear and the highs are big and pleasant… dunno what trickery TE did but that sample rate is rather specific.

The Zeptocore (Transformers Decepticons member obviously :sweat_smile:) addresses so much of what I want to do with samples on more expensive alternatives and is so accidentally expressive :clap: Please follow up on how it compares in sound recordings vs your MPC/404, I will be sampling/tracking punchy POs throughout and Im expecting some loss in the low end, otherwise I hope it has a crisp punch to it in person. The FX are so well programmed (love the old school jungle time stretch :heart_eyes:

And can you not use the html editor offline? Have you read the cloud contract regarding user samples?

Look forward to hearing more from your examination/ experience with the Zeptocore :sunglasses::clinking_glasses:

Thanks for taking the time :kissing_heart: